Author Topic: Re-training again and why it's important to do that  (Read 1464 times)

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CR Williams

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Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« on: February 07, 2016, 09:52:20 AM »
So I'm working on re-training my trigger finger based on something I got from Pat McNamara's Pistol and Carbine TAPS DVDs. Making progress with that, feeling pretty good about making progress with that. (Gotta get my satisfaction where I can, you know?)

So yesterday I'm running a video camera to get stills from for a book project. Need something on the drawstroke. So I run a few reps and pull the video into the editing software and do some cutting and slowing down and then I look at the finished product to pull some stills and....

...I'm going to have to go specifically back to training that for a few days at least, probably best if it's a few weeks. It's correct enough in general and I have what I need from the movement to get the stills out I need for the project but there's a portion of the movement that I see needs to be reviewed and re-trained to get it locked down better. It will work if I need it as it is but it will work better and do everything I want it to if I do the additional re-training.

The good news is I can continue re-training the trigger finger (fingers, actually, since I work both hands as a rule) while I do this. Bad news (sorta) is that I did let myself slip some and need to tighten up some.

What are the lessons from this?

We all should have some sort of feedback from time to time about what we're doing and how we're doing it. This can be another person or it can be a video camera like it was with me here.

The basics and the fundamentals should be reviewed periodically. It does not have to be a long or a comprehensive review. It does need to be enough that we can be sure we can perform those basic movements and techniques--the true foundation of anything and everything we think of as advanced capability--with ease and competence and in an efficient manner.

Don't ever let the basics get away from you, ladies and gentlemen. Not in whole or in part. They're the foundation for everything you do. If you let that foundation get weak it may break the whole structure you built just when you need it most.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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oldranger53

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Re: Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2016, 10:47:19 AM »
I agree with "the basics".

No matter how much "advanced" stuff ya learn or aquire, the basics never go away.

Punch, kick, block... (relating to H2H), move.
Always there and always important.

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Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

M1911A1

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Re: Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2016, 03:37:12 PM »
In practice, Jean and I watch each other, and offer critiques as necessary.

Working with a partner is a good thing, although the video camera will show more errors more clearly.
Steve,
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"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

oldranger53

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Re: Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2016, 04:57:14 PM »
In practice, Jean and I watch each other, and offer critiques as necessary.

Working with a partner is a good thing, although the video camera will show more errors more clearly.
I whole heartedly agree with the partner and the video witness techniques!

Since installing the video surveillance system in our place, I'm aghast at how I look while walking through the house...especially the back of my head!

There used to be HAIR on it!

Now I look akin to Bozo The Clown from the back.

Woe is me!

<Sent from phone. Typos possible.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

M1911A1

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Re: Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2016, 06:29:53 PM »
...Now I look akin to Bozo The Clown from the back...

Do you mean that you have a round-ball, red rubber nose on the back of your head?   ;D    ;)
Inquiring minds want to know.
Steve,
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"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

oldranger53

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Re: Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2016, 06:33:06 PM »
...Now I look akin to Bozo The Clown from the back...

Do you mean that you have a round-ball, red rubber nose on the back of your head?   ;D    ;)
Inquiring minds want to know.
May as well have that!  Sure have the hair that matches!

<Sent from phone. Typos possible.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

Taurian

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Re: Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 09:42:14 AM »
And meanwhile, back to our regularly scheduled program.

Good post, CR.  I found my self concentrating on a good trigger pull this past weekend.  Fortunately, I had a good trigger to work with.  I still need more work on follow-through, however.
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

oldranger53

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Re: Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2016, 02:08:32 PM »
And meanwhile, back to our regularly scheduled program.

Good post, CR.  I found my self concentrating on a good trigger pull this past weekend.  Fortunately, I had a good trigger to work with.  I still need more work on follow-through, however.
Hey yeah...let's talk about trigger pull.

Lately I've seen guys on videos holding their trigger down, and releasing it only far enough to get the reset, then pulling again.

That makes me interested to find out more about trigger "control".

Any thoughts?

<Sent from phone. Typos possible.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

M1911A1

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Re: Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2016, 02:35:30 PM »
It's really difficult to do that with a properly set-up 1911. The reset is already about as short as possible.
I just "tap" the trigger, and then lift my finger off of it.
The same is true of the similar trigger of my .380 Colt's Pocket Hammerless.

For my AMT .45 Backup, a DAO pistol with a very heavy trigger action, I find that trying to do a controlled trigger reset is counter-productive.
I can't feel the reset point through the heavy trigger.
I just let it go all the way forward, and then press through it again.

Jean's Kel-Tec P-3AT has an easily felt reset point, but it's so close to full-release that trying to do a controlled reset seems meaningless.
Once again, we just let the trigger return to full-forward.

Controlling the forward movement of a trigger, to shorten the time to the second press, is more a competition trick than a practical act. It can shave milliseconds off of each shot's time, but at the expense of divided attention.
If you're faced with cardboard targets, you can afford to play with your attention and your finger movement; but if you're facing a real life-and-death threat, I suggest that there's no good practical reason to divide your attention, merely in order to shave milliseconds from your second-shot time.
Steve,
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"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

CR Williams

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Re: Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2016, 05:37:45 AM »
And meanwhile, back to our regularly scheduled program.

Good post, CR.  I found my self concentrating on a good trigger pull this past weekend.  Fortunately, I had a good trigger to work with.  I still need more work on follow-through, however.
Hey yeah...let's talk about trigger pull.

Lately I've seen guys on videos holding their trigger down, and releasing it only far enough to get the reset, then pulling again.

That makes me interested to find out more about trigger "control".

Any thoughts?

<Sent from phone. Typos possible.>

A couple.

Working on the reset in practice and on the range I believe has assisted me with shooting aimed bursts. On most guns I've tried you can both hear and feel the reset so it's usually easy to find it. I don't do it a lot but do sometimes spend a bit of time focusing on reset.

Surprise break - A sniper I know once said that he doesn't want a surprise break. He wants to know as exactly as possible when the shot will break. That's his idea of trigger control and it makes more sense to me than trying to get a surprise break. I've adopted that concept as part of the overall philosophy of trigger control. It is something I'm not sure new shooters should do, however. I would rather get them working a consistent pull with surprise break first. Once experience is gained, the idea of a conscious shot break can be introduced.
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Re: Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2016, 08:35:20 PM »
I'm a fan of letting the trigger return as far as the spring will go, without taking your finger off of it.  Trying to stop forward movement at the reset point is a valid gaming technique, but real world we're more interested in reliability, not shaving a tenth of a second off a shot string. 
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Re: Re-training again and why it's important to do that
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2016, 04:40:14 AM »
I don't like surprises and it takes a lot of trigger time to determine when the trigger is going to break on some firearms.  A smooth pull and let-off, without removing the trigger finger from the trigger goes a long way. Also, working with a single platform breeds familiarity.  Every time that I switch up platforms, it is a re-learning experience.
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.