Author Topic: 20 + killed in texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle  (Read 202 times)

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Robert Harvey

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20 + killed in texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle
« on: November 06, 2017, 04:27:18 AM »
20 + killed in Texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle.

"I pulled up on the intersection and I saw the shooter coming from the cars, actually right outside the church his vehicle was parked, doors open engines open and him and the neighbor across the street and exchanging fire," he said.

"The shooter got in his truck, the gentlemen with the rifle came to my truck as the shooter took off, and he briefed me quickly on what had just happened and said we had to get him, so that's what I did," he said.
Following a brief chase, the two caught up with the gunman.
"We just take pursuit, we speed over 87 through traffic and hit about 95 going down 539 trying to catch this guy until he eventually lost control on his own and went off in the ditch," Langendorff said.


Police arrived within five to seven minutes to the location where the shooter stopped. “We led police to him,” he said, according to Ksat.com.



http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/texas-church-massacre-man-hailed-hero-for-chasing-gunman-after-killings.html
Time will tell.

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Re: 20 + killed in texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 07:52:54 AM »
Robert, I am following this with interest. I am sorry for the shooting and the people involved. As I have posted before we now have a Volunteer Greeter group at our church which I was allowed to organize a few years back. We are taking measures to protect us while in worship and Bible study. Members come to me often with questions.

Talked to a new to concealed carry young guy yesterday. He asked me if I church carried. He went on to say he does not like IWB carry. Told him I pocket carry and had a Taurus 7 shot revolver in my right front pocket(strong side) and a 642 J frame in the left front pocket. Reloads in the back pocket along with my knife. Told him pocket carry had drawbacks that one had to adjust too. He was surprised. I had on black dress slacks. He never noticed.

I knew he concealed carried because he wore tight fitting clothes and I have previously noticed the bulge on his right hip several times. Told me he carried in a Crossbreed Super Tuck IWB and didn't like it. He has purchased a smaller gun.

I told him to dress around the gun. Told him I purchased trousers with large pockets, a size larger than I needed, and in dark colors. Young guys don't like to hear that.

He is on our Volunteer Greeter team, but we are not an armed team. Individuals carry for their own self defense purposes.

It is hard to get young men to lose the skin tight clothes and dress around the gun. Instead they buy smaller and smaller guns. This guy is 6'3" and had bear claw hands. He purchased a S/ w Shield in 9 MM. I asked him if he could shoot the gun well. He told me he could and had run 450 rounds through his new Shield so far and is going to the local range every week.

Talked to our church leaders last evening. We are going to get some group training in, security, for our Volunteer Greeter team. They see the need now (since the Antioch and Texas shootings)and I have located a Police Officer/ Trainer in a neighboring town and chatted with him and he is willing to come and talk to us. We are going to go to his church and see him teach his church on Dec 2nd which will give us some insight to his ability. My preacher sent me his name and told me, the preacher in the other church, conceal carries also.

The new team volunteer, we were training yesterday, met me at the door last evening, and had a completely different attitude after viewing the news about the Texas shooting yesterday. He now realizes he is the eyes for our church and how important it can be. It was a good teachable moment for him and I.

We had a member visit the church at Antioch, lately, and those church goers are going through a really rough time. They lost 7 before the young greeter made contact with the shooter and stopped the carnage. It is sad what happened there and in Texas. We need to pray for them guys. You know they are really hurting. Sad thing when we can't be safe in church any more.

I know this is a long rant, but this subject is very important to me. Church safety has been one of my church mission for the past 6 years. I know my limitations and that is why I am pushing for Professional training for our team. Our church leaders are on board now. Will let you know how things turn out.

Robert Harvey

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Re: 20 + killed in texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 01:15:19 PM »
Great!
Thanks
Time will tell.

pstan13

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Re: 20 + killed in texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 07:56:42 AM »
The man that stopped the shooter with his own rifle was an NRA instructor. I wonder how much the mainstream media will make of that. Also the fact that the Air Force never notified the FBI that Kelley was convicted of domestic abuse. He never should have been able to own guns.

http://www.4029tv.com/article/man-who-shot-texas-church-gunman-shares-his-story/13437943
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes."
-- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: 20 + killed in texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2017, 07:04:09 AM »
Pure evil, no doubt about that!

How did this maniac— dishonorably discharged from the service for assaulting his wife, spent a year in lockup as a result— end up owning a gun? Not only that, he’d posted pictures of it on Facebook.

Guys, gun laws are not the answer. Just look at how many were broken here by this perp.

But yeah, you gotta love rural Texas!

Apparently one of the church’s neighbors heard the shots and called her 50-year-old dad— a plumber who had never served in the military, but “loved to shoot”— who grabbed his rifle, headed to the scene, and engaged the shooter in an exchange of gunfire as the shooter was exiting the church; possibly to grab one of the other weapons the shooter had in his vehicle.

Then when the shooter drove off (don't know if true or not but one news cast reported) with a hostage aboard, the plumber hailed down a stranger in a pickup truck, and together they pursued the shooter; calling the cops on their cellphone with their location and direction of travel. Then when the shooter’s vehicle left the road and came to a stop— maybe from loss of blood— the good guys kept a rifle trained on him from a short distance till the cops arrived, and found the shooter dead, and the hostage unharmed. Police think he shot himself also.

It’ll be interesting to see how the MSM deals with this instance, of a legally-armed citizen ending the slaughter with his personally-owned  at 15 rifle(black gun); how they’ll manage to try to make a case for gun control out of it, which they always do.

"It takes a good guy with a gun, to stop a bad guy with a gun." The NRA was blasted for this (true) statement.

So God bless Texas! And armed citizens ready at a moment’s notice to band together and immediatly move to aggressively confront evil.

IMO< someone in the church should have been armed, Think about it!!!

At least they may have had a fighting chance. Churchgoers, today, had better get their heads out of the sand, and make some preparation for dealing with "possible" evil walking in their doors.

Every since I went to church in, Glen Burnie Maryland, with my daughter, and witnessed a guy get into a shouting match with the teacher, so much so that the teacher had to quit the class, I have talked to our church leaders to let me prepare our congregation for such an occurrence. 

Guys I had never see this happen before this time. This took place 6 years ago and every since I have been teaching about 20 guys, "Our Volunteer Greeters" how to handle emergencies in our church. We have had 6 episodes since, that our guys had to handle. Ranging from catching a neighborhood 15 year old boy rifling through coat pockets hanging on our hallway coat rack, during Bible study, one day,  to our last instance. We had a guy com in with a hoodie on, which he never took off his head, and sit down in the middle of our auditorium and began staring at women. So much so that we had ladies get up and go to the bathroom and throw up.

Turned out this guy was homeless, mentally ill, dirty, and very  menacing looking. Turned out all he wanted was a cup of coffee and doughnut to eat, but his mannerisms and appearance scared the "hibbie gibbies" out of those around him.

Our church plan is to not open the door, but for the greeter to come into the auditorium and get 4 or 5 other men, then go to the door and see what this guy wanted. There is safety in numbers, but they can assess the situation, together, and then decide to address the visitor or just call 911 and wait. But plans can be sidestepped just like the teenager did  and then the problem must be addressed in the auditorium, where we hope not to be forced to do.  "Ah, the best laid plans of men and mice!"

Our team locks entry doors and we keep a volunteer in the hallway all the time, but on this occasion he had gone to the back of the building to lock the back entrances, and a teenager allowed this guy entrance to the building.

You know it is amazing, you have to tell people that they do not have to open a door and allow entry to a stranger, with a hoodie on over his head in 95 degree weather, who looks  extremely unkempt, and extremely threatening. Think about that for a minute.

That is how naive and unknowing some people, "most churchgoers of today," are. 

Guys, we had better get a grip on reality...............The sheepdog that shot the perp and chased him, is a sheepdog. A Courageous Real Man!!!!! Very well may have saved more lives. This guy wanted to kill everyone in the church. Turned out his shot 90% of them, half dying.

If you have a head on your shoulders, think about this!!!!!!!! If you go to church, help your church to come to reality and prepare for evil. If you work ask questions. Disgruntled employees are shooting up work places. Preparation for 'Possible" evil is a necessary thing for todays world.

Churches in our area are. The Antioch TN shooting opened a lot of peoples eyes here in TN. A neighboring county church is having a training session, I am going to attend, on safety and security in their church. It is being taught by a professional trainer/Police officer.

As you can see, this is a very serious subject for me. Sorry for the long winded rant.       

oldranger53

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Re: 20 + killed in texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 08:01:57 PM »
Yes, it IS a serious subject.
Rant, OK.

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Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

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Re: 20 + killed in texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2017, 06:20:00 PM »
I am not quiet as fanatical/radical as this guys is, but I have no doubt what he says was true, concerning the trainees. Had I been in that class, the news about the church shooting would have certainty flashed "red" in my mind. I would have been very serious, about training myself, also.

LAMBS INTO LIONS - IS IT REAL FOR YOU?

Monday, November 06, 2017

It is Monday after class. I just finished a great discussion with David Yamane, who attended the class as an observer.

As you know, on Sunday, at the same time we were training, 27 church goers were shot to death in a Sutherland Springs church. He asked me an important question during his interview.

"What would you have told that pastor the day before the shooting?"

My answer was direct. I would have told him not to forget that evil was real and earthly, and that it was in fact his responsibility to tell his congregation as much...and to protect them from its earthly manifestation while they were with him.

During the last few hours of class, the tired students were drilling in proactive-aggressive shooting. Things reserved in the minds of many gun students (and instructors) for counter terrorist operators and police officers.

Advance on the threat while you put multiple rounds into the face. Advance on the threat, shooting him in the face and then firing again into the face of the fallen target to prevent the detonation of an IED. Not defensive in nature, posture or concept, but rather direct and violent and based on the attack rather than the defense. And the tired students went through the drills.

One noted, "I don't think we can do that...I think we will get in trouble if we do that".

I said, that there were two very real paradigms when it came to our adversaries today, and each paradigm had its own rules of engagement. That the common criminal...the mugger in the parking lot, had a set of rules of engagement that were in line with the mainstream self-defense thinking of the gun community, and limited by the laws of self defense, etc.

But the other paradigm was of the active shooter or the terrorist, whose very actions gave you license to out-violence him with gunfire. But more than shooting to "stop him" a man who found himself in one of these events, even, and perhaps specially if, he was not individually attacked, had license to attack the shooter/terrorist. And with the prevalence of explosives, it was perfectly appropriate and perhaps mandatory to begin the fight with aggressive proactive shooting and end it with head shots on the downed terrorists.

They agreed with the thinking, but there was still a disconnect it seemed. They couldn't seem to let go of the self-defense paradigm. We took a quick water, reload magazines, reconfigure targets break. It was during that break that one of the students asked if I had reception...that he'd received a text that something was going down in Texas.

A few minutes later I read them a short briefing of the events in Sutherland Springs.

"More than 20 people were killed after a gunman walked into a church in a rural community about 30 miles east of San Antonio and opened fire on Sunday, an official said. The dead range from infants to the elderly. The scene is still developing".

Not a word was spoken as the students continued to load magazines. Something changed in their minds at that moment.

David noted this morning in our interview the change in their mood. It had just become real for them. We saw middle aged ladies, professional men, doctors, and others attacking the targets, intent not on surviving the self defense event, but on killing the terrorists. The lambs had become lions.

In the last month we have seen a rifleman in an hotel room pulling off the greatest mass murder in recent history, a jihadist running a truck into a crowd, and now a mass murder inside a church.

This is not fantasy, it is real.

We live in a time of war, and those of us who teach have a duty to prepare our students for the threats of today.

It is our calling to turn lambs into lions.

Gabe Saurez
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 04:37:16 AM by pop pop »

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Re: 20 + killed in texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 12:35:43 PM »
Good post pop pop, thanks.

oldranger53

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Re: 20 + killed in texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 06:34:12 PM »
Yep the more I read from Mr. Suarez the more I warm up to him....in cyberspace that is.
I like the fact that he SAYS the nitty gritty stuff that at least some of us are thinking.

OR53, out

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Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

pop pop

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Re: 20 + killed in texas - gunman stopped by citizen using his rifle
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 05:04:01 AM »
You know, as I age and my body breaks down more, and more, I realize my role as leader of our team is to prepare the young men to take the lead in our church safety. My knees have played out, and I am scheduled  for knee replacement on Mar 5th, provided my heart Dr releases me for the surgery. Eventually both knees are going to be replaced, and I will be 70 the day before the surgery on my first knee.

It troubles me being in this compromised state of reediness, but life goes on. I had cataract surgery last year and can no longer see my sights on my EDC, as I once could, without wearing glasses. The surgery takes away the ability to read, unless you can afford expensive lenses. I am going to get some different sights put on  couple of my EDC guns and hope that helps.     

Several of us will be attending a training session, with another church congregation, soon. My purpose for going is to see how and what the instructor is going to teach the congregation. This will be his (trainer) first session with, not only the safety team of that church, but the whole congregation minus the 12 and under children. One of my church leaders, plus a young, use-to-be Army Ranger who attends our congregation, will be attending with me, and a couple from a nearby congregation, who members have been demanding some preparation be made, in their church, for their own protection while worshiping.

In our congregation, we had a man, come to us Wednesday evening,  and tell one of our leaders, and myself, his wishes to lock back doors, even more than we do now. I am in agreement with him and hope the leaders will allow us too in the future.

I tell you people are demanding we take steps for their safety, and I think that is good, however, we must demand they be willing to take their part, and be aware their own personal safety is their responsibility, and they can't pass that off to someone else. That is the part many start squirming when told that fact.

Saurez is very radical in his approach to training, but in his post, he is spot on.

Safety, anywhere, is of the upmost of importance. Would you agree?

This is the NRA interview with the man who intercepted and fired on the guy that shot the people in the Texas church.


https://www.nratv.com/home/video/stinchfield-stephen-willeford-nra-member-and-texas-hero-exclusive-hour-long-interview


I watched this interview in it's entirety. It is not polished, but his words in his way, without much leading by the interviewer. It is well worth your time to watch it.

Just a tease=  This old guy ran out of his house, without his shoes on to take on this gunman.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 11:57:26 AM by pop pop »