Author Topic: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns  (Read 2642 times)

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Taurian

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Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« on: September 28, 2016, 06:21:03 AM »
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

pop pop

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2016, 08:27:37 AM »
What, NO revolvers!

Taurian

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2016, 08:55:28 AM »
What, NO revolvers!
The Ruger LCR in .38 Special/.357 Magnum is in the list!
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

oldranger53

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2016, 04:48:41 PM »
Hummmm, seems as if the author(s) of this piece are fond of Kimbers.

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 05:06:40 AM »
What, NO revolvers!
The Ruger LCR in .38 Special/.357 Magnum is in the list!

It shouldn't be.

No revolver should be on such a list.

It's not 1860 any more. Semi-autos mo bettah.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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Taurian

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 07:40:01 AM »
What, NO revolvers!
The Ruger LCR in .38 Special/.357 Magnum is in the list!

It shouldn't be.

No revolver should be on such a list.

It's not 1860 any more. Semi-autos mo bettah.
While that is a personal opinion, it could be opined that the 9mm cartridge is a "cartridge of convenience" and should not be considered as a personal defense cartridge.

When the Colt 1873 SAA revolver was finally accepted by the military, the required cartridge was the .45 Long Colt, a black-powder cartridge, over the .44WCF (.44-40 Winchester Center Fire) cartridge. 

When the 1911 pistol was selected, the 9mm cartridge was rejected because the military, at that time, needed "stopping power' and that was something the 9mm cartridge did not have.

In 1985, the Beretta M9 was adopted and the "cartridge of convenience" was deemed worthy because of the "convenience" of carrying more of them than the .45 ACP cartridge. The same "cartridge of convenience" fallacy moved forward with the M16 that chambered the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge rather than using the more effective 7.62x51mm cartridge.

The last time that I "limp-wristed" my .357 magnum revolver, I pulled the trigger a second time and guess what? The cylinder rotated, locked into place, the next round fired, and I continued on. I did not have to perform a "tap-rack-bang" exercise to solve the jam issue as can sometimes occur with limp-writing a pistol.

It has been well documented that the 9mm cartridge is a "cartridge of convenience;" whereas, the .45 cartridge is a "cartridge of confidence."  To put it in other words, "The nine takes its time. The forty-five stops the jive."

There are only two handguns that should make a list for defensive uses; a revolver in .357 magnum and a pistol in .45 ACP. Anything less is not the best!

Let's get silly!  ;D
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

NorCalChuck

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2016, 08:56:17 AM »
OH Boy . . . . Here we go.
Seems like I have read this stuff some place else.
Have mercy . . . . . Pleeze!
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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2016, 10:09:10 AM »
This topic will never die a merciful death, but I promise to provide compassionate treatment of those in caliber confusion or cannot respect the circle (wheel) of life.  ;D
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

oldranger53

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2016, 11:18:32 AM »
Personally, I've resolved the caliber issue, by accepting that I need em all.
That way, when conversing with the "less is more" crowd I can have some common ground with them.

Now, to be fair, there are times I've found it necessary to "down size" for a while.
Yep, a few years ago I took part in a social gathering wherein the husbands role played as "waiters" for the wives.  The "uniform" was black pants, white shirt.  It was an inside event, and we cooked, served dinner to a large room full of women, then bussed the tables and did the dishes, etc...

No real room for packing, even my old .44spl Bulldog was too large to really conceal it.
So what I did was get the 442 out of mothballs, fish the ankle holster out of the closet...put 2 speed loaders in an empty nylon "Buck knife" case...and go like that.
It worked.

Not the kind of thing I'd do every day, but for that event it was good enough.

There are times when "less" truly is "more", but the default is MORE is MORE.

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

CR Williams

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2016, 05:33:26 AM »
What, NO revolvers!
The Ruger LCR in .38 Special/.357 Magnum is in the list!

It shouldn't be.

No revolver should be on such a list.

It's not 1860 any more. Semi-autos mo bettah.
While that is a personal opinion, it could be opined that the 9mm cartridge is a "cartridge of convenience" and should not be considered as a personal defense cartridge.

Personal opinion borne out by history and experience. Or you can show me a military organization that is still issuing revolvers as a standard sidearm to soldiers that rate a handgun somewhere. Even that would be the exception that tests the rule, not one that invalidates it.

(Even as far back as the 1970s-80s I know of only ONE military unit, a French CT group, that ran revolvers--.357 Magnums, in fact. Everybody else even that far back was rolling with semis.)

As for 9mm...semiautos are made in more calibers than that. Try another straw man.

It's 2016. Semi-autos mo' bettah.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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oldranger53

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2016, 06:58:32 AM »
He He!
I was wondering how long it would take!

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

Taurian

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2016, 08:14:28 AM »
Straw man! What do I look like, an actor in the Wizard of Oz?

What has the military have to do with anything? We civilians are not dictated to by the military, and just because the military issues a semi-automatic pistol does not mean that we civilians have to carry what the military carries - or any agency for that matter. We have a choice in what personal firearm we decide to carry according to our personal needs.

Comparisons between wheel-guns and semi-automatic pistols is well documented and that means there is plenty of information for an individual to research prior to buying one or the other. Caliber and ammunition selection is also a personal choice. We are not dictated to use NATO ammunition and we can pick and choose defensive/hunting ammunition based on choice through knowledge and/or speculation based on research, or information presented by the many ammunition manufacturers, as to how that ammunition will perform when it penetrates a body - animal or human.

As for the list in the article, it is only a representation of concealed carry handguns available to us and reflect the author's picks. The list is not cast in stone as handguns you must have. While I may not agree that the LCR should have been included in the list, because I would rather have seen the Ruger SP101, I would not discount revolvers entirely.

What we should be doing, as firearm operators with experience, is promoting firearms and provide logical information that would help those who wish to own/carry a firearm make an educated decision as to what firearm they wish to own/carry. As firearm operators with experience, we should also promote training and provide logical information that would help those who wish to own/carry their choice of firearms operate those firearms in a safe and effective manner (run on sentence noted).

Personally, I could care less what a person decides to choose as their personal defense assistant.  I know people who can place six rounds of .357 magnum in a four-inch circle at ten yards with a wheel gun. I also know people that cannot place fifteen rounds in a four-inch circle at ten yards with a modern, high-capacity semi-automatic pistol. The reverse is also true. So, is it the tool or the ability of the operator to use that tool effectively?

If we discount one, what keeps us from discounting others? 

I'll just leave this discussion with this: Why Choose a Wheelgun?: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/10/8/why-choose-a-wheelgun/
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2016, 03:22:59 PM »
I once had a guy that chided me for carrying a 7 shot 357 Mag revolver, while he carries an 8 shot 45, 1911. Go figure.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2016, 12:05:43 PM »




(Even as far back as the 1970s-80s I know of only ONE military unit, a French CT group, that ran revolvers--.357 Magnums, in fact. Everybody else even that far back was rolling with semis.)

As for 9mm...semiautos are made in more calibers than that. Try another straw man.

It's 2016. Semi-autos mo' bettah.

If memory serves, a few SEAL Teams used a .357 Mag also, I don't remember the make and model though.

As for the quibble over semi and revolver, I reply, Both. Best of both worlds. Now as to the 9 mm vs. 45 battle --- Go big or go home  :P

However, I will admit that I am looking at a Ruger SP101 in 327 Mag.   :o

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2016, 05:41:25 PM »




(Even as far back as the 1970s-80s I know of only ONE military unit, a French CT group, that ran revolvers--.357 Magnums, in fact. Everybody else even that far back was rolling with semis.)

As for 9mm...semiautos are made in more calibers than that. Try another straw man.

It's 2016. Semi-autos mo' bettah.

If memory serves, a few SEAL Teams used a .357 Mag also, I don't remember the make and model though.

As for the quibble over semi and revolver, I reply, Both. Best of both worlds. Now as to the 9 mm vs. 45 battle --- Go big or go home 

However, I will admit that I am looking at a Ruger SP101 in 327 Mag.   :o
Smith and Wesson Model 60.
At least, that's the one mentioned in the book, "Rogue Warrior".
Old Ralph claimed that his SEAL Team (6) could put all 6 shots in a 3x5 card from some distance...etc....

He also claimed that they could all bench press 500 lbs too. 

I'm thinking there may have been slight exaggeration at times, in that book.

BTW, I only read about half of it before loosing interest.

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2016, 06:13:05 AM »
What has the military have to do with anything?

The military has a lot to do with it (law enforcement has more in this case and guess what--they run semis very nearly exclusively too) because they run a lot of guns for a long time. So we get a chance to see what works and what works best by looking at what works for MIL and LE.

That's a semi-auto.
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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2016, 07:00:17 AM »
That's how I like to pick calibers.
Military and Law Enforcement calibers tend to be "no nonsense", and plentiful in the landscape, should the stores ever close (hint hint).

30-06
.45acp
5.56mm
9mm
7.62x51
7.62x39

You get the picture

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2016, 09:18:53 AM »
What has the military have to do with anything?

The military has a lot to do with it (law enforcement has more in this case and guess what--they run semis very nearly exclusively too) because they run a lot of guns for a long time. So we get a chance to see what works and what works best by looking at what works for MIL and LE.

That's a semi-auto.
Yes, I always trust the government to know what is best for me </snark>  ;D
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2016, 09:31:09 PM »
<snicker>

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

CR Williams

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2016, 05:28:19 AM »
What has the military have to do with anything?

The military has a lot to do with it (law enforcement has more in this case and guess what--they run semis very nearly exclusively too) because they run a lot of guns for a long time. So we get a chance to see what works and what works best by looking at what works for MIL and LE.

That's a semi-auto.
Yes, I always trust the government to know what is best for me </snark>  ;D

Not always. But sometimes you can. If you had fired as many rounds through as many weapons or weapon classes as .MIL had in as many different environments under as many different circumstances as they have I would assign you the same weight in your findings as I do them.

You should be more on board with them anyway. It looks like they're taking serious looks at .45ACP again, they've brought in more 7.62 x 51 due to recent combat experience, and they figured out how to make the AR platform a viable combat arm. Tactics and experience have been brought from the battlefield to civilian training by them. And they're not passing any stupid laws, which is a key factor in my view.

Beats the crap out of the Executive and Legislative branches for performance if you ask me.
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Taurian

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2016, 07:51:32 AM »
I don't discount what WATs (Weapons and Tactics) the military and LE can teach us.  That is invaluable knowledge. It is invaluable knowledge especially if it to be used against us.

I think that what we need to keep in perspective is that we are not in the military or are LEOs.  We don't have weapons and gear issued to us.  Not all of us can afford a good rifle, shotgun, and handgun (the recommended minimum) that should be on board to provide protection for the self, the family, and the Casa, let alone afford the training to operate those firearms under stress conditions. We do the best that we can with what we have.

It took me quite a while to face the fact that I actually do need a high-capacity, semi-automatic carbine/rifle of whatever caliber.  Back when I was a LEO, I did not feel the need for a high-capacity, semi-automatic pistol and I carried an eight-round Sig P220.  Times have changed; however, and there is a definite need for both.

I think that more people are coming around to the virtue of owning a firearm, but have yet to understand the virtue of training with that firearm, which helps them to become more responsible (and effective) gun owners. Some of these gun owners may never move beyond a simple revolver or pistol for self protection, and that is fine - at least they have something, and I think that we should promote that.  On that same token, I am not going to chide someone for owning a revolver for the purpose of self defense.

When I was at the range one time, I was observing a woman in the next lane as she shot her small-frame revolver.  Her shots were all over the place.  I learned, after talking with her, that she suffered from a nerve condition that caused her hands to shake uncontrollably. Trying to work the trigger and put shots on target was hard work for her.  Would she have shot better with a semi-automatic pistol that has a lighter trigger and better sight? Perhaps so, but I never took that chance to recommend that she try one.  I could tell that she was very self-conscious of her condition and did not pursue the matter further.  In fact, it was not my business to do so.  It would take some specialized work with her to make her a better shooter, but at least she was shooting and I needed to leave it at that.

As maybe well known, I like to take the middle ground on most subjects and try to take a moderate approach on most things.  I was once asked why I did not carry a Glock instead of my 1911. I could only respond that the 1911 works for me and the Glock does not.  Afterward, I wondered if that same question would have been asked if I carried something other than the 1911; a Beretta , a Sig P226, or a M&P Shield, for example.  To tell the truth, caliber is not as important to me as to what I can do with the firearm regardless of caliber.  If I can find a handgun that satisfies me more than the 1911, I will carry it regardless of caliber; double-action, single-action, double/single action, safe-action - no matter.

Just some thoughts this morning of October 5, 2016. Now, pardon me while I go to my safe space.  ;D
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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2016, 09:31:39 AM »
Very interesting, the way this thread is developing.

While I'm proud of most of my experience in the military, there are facets of it that still disgust me.
I can only imagine how far down the military has gone in the 40+ years I've been out.

Contracts and who gets them has always caused me to scratch my head.

On the other hand, THE reason I was "ok" with the .40 caliber sidetrack I took a couple years ago was simply that the FBI chose that caliber as "worthy" for their agents to carry into future firefights.

Everything is a tradeoff.  Last time I made a choice of firearms, I had a Tactical RIA 1911 in one hand, and a Springfield XD 45 in the other.
I chose the XD mainly because of capacity.  However, if there'd been a 14 shot 1911 on the table I would have picked THAT one over the RIA.

Tradeoff.
It always comes down to a tradeoff.

What do ya need?
What do ya want?
What can you live without in order to get what ya want and need?

Now I'm going to MY "safe space! 

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2016, 10:26:05 AM »
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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2016, 01:49:31 PM »
"Understanding Magazine Capacity"

http://rangemaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/2016-10_RFTS-Newsletter.pdf

Time is life.
How do I want to approach this subject?

The reference is a good read and I understand the virtues of high-capacity firearms.  With that said, the article assumes that I want to be in a prolonged firefight. That can't be further from the truth.  Like the bad guy, I want the event to be over as quickly as possible; bada-bing, bada-boom and it's over with the wind in my direction. If the event can come to a close just by my pointing a barrel with a big-arse hole at the end of it at the bad guy, I consider that a win. I can only hope that the hand is steady and the warrior spirit is strong in me should I actually have to use the thing.

I am considering a high-capacity .45 ACP pistol. I would prefer it to be a 1911, but the options in large-capacity 1911s are limited. For me, a full-size 1911 is still relatively easy to conceal in summer and in winter months.  A double-stack 1911 is not any wider in the grip than a Glock, Springfield, or other double-stack pistol in .45 ACP; however, the slide on the 1911 is much narrower. The downside of the high-capacity 1911 is weight, but that added weight sure is nice when shooting it.  With that said , I am going to be evaluating a few high-capacity pistols, Sig P227 SAS GEN2 Carry, FNH FX45, and the Springfield XDm 4.25. One of these, just may make the cut.
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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2016, 05:33:27 AM »
"Understanding Magazine Capacity"

http://rangemaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/2016-10_RFTS-Newsletter.pdf

Time is life.
How do I want to approach this subject?

The reference is a good read and I understand the virtues of high-capacity firearms.  With that said, the article assumes that I want to be in a prolonged firefight.

I read nothing in the article that leads me to that assumption by the author. It does assume that the fight may go longer and that you may expend more rounds than is so often quoted as the average and/or than you expect to be necessary.

And even with the smaller capacity (6-8 round) semis, the difference in reload time between that and a revolver is significant and could have a bearing on your winning or losing a fight.
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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2016, 06:06:58 AM »
I'll rephrase my statement to; "The author assumes that we will be in a prolonged firefight." Or, at the minimum, "We should prepare to be a prolonged firefight." It has been said that no one will complain about having too much ammunition, and to which I agree.
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2016, 02:25:39 PM »
I am an Addict!

 There is nothing so powerful a scene as to see a grown man lying naked, curled in the fetal position and sobbing as streams of nearly scalding hot water pummel not only his physical being, but his soul.
 
It had been a night of fitful sleep; my mind moving from a tranquil plane to a point of panic. So bizarre it was that I finally succumbed to the panic, stripped my self of my earthly coverings, and slipped into a shower to hide the tears that were whelming up inside of me.  The shower of water so hot that my skin reddened and my pulse quickened as my physical body fought against the onslaught of steaming hot pellets that felt like a million bee stings. But, I knew that I must remain to cleanse myself of so many years spent in shame of a sinful past.
 
I slowly slipped to my knees at one point; the burden so great upon my being. My body, so wracked in anguish, attempted to rise but could not. My spirit cried out for relief, but none soon came. 
 
My hands covered my eyes as my body slumped forward into a fetal position. I could let no one see me as this disheveled shell of a man I was at this point. Sobs wracked my body as my hands shielded from the sight the tears that were being washed away.  Thus is the beginning of healing for the addict.  Yes, I am an addict! There, I have said it and my secret lies bare for all to see.  The addict must hide his addiction from others, lest they perceive him to be a detriment to society in his sadness and his weakness.  This addiction lies in all of us; it only takes the proper trigger to ignite the flame that will haunt us until eternity and which only serves as intercourse with destruction.  The only way to survive is to rid the mind, body, and spirit from the cocoon that envelopes us once we are in its grasp.  The addition begins so innocently, a mere wisp of want and desire that, ultimately, leads to more wants and desires.  This addiction consumes the very essence of who we want to be with the reality of who we actually are. So weak and miserable are we that we succumb to it so easily without thought to what lies beyond.
 
Slowly, I felt the addiction slide from my body as my eyes opened and my body, no longer feeling the pain from the onslaught of the shower. My mouth opened gasping for what air I could suck out of the moisture that enveloped me I felt as if I was at the portal, that point that must be crossed, in order for me to conquer the addiction. “I must! I must prevail!” I screamed into the night; not caring who may hear. I did not expect anyone to. That is when I heard the voice. A voice coming from on-high, was calling to me in the night, like the song of a siren on a dark, deep ocean. “Hey! Do I need to call 911 or something?” NO! No you do not! I was just singing in the shower,” I responded.
 
Struggling, I pulled myself to one knee while bracing myself against the shower wall. The pain of the hot water was subsiding and I began to feel cold. Had my spirit left my body or had the water heater run out of hot water? Deciding it was the latter, I began the struggle to regain an upright position. The knee that I had been resting on seemed to have a permanent imprint of the shower drain on it and I slipped as I was trying to regain a vertical position; the bar of soap that I had in my hand at the beginning of my “event” had slipped from my hand and my foot found it as I was trying to rise.
 
I felt as if I had been reborn. A renewed sense of spirit was almost overwhelming. I knew that I had taken the first step in breaking my addiction (and my hip if I wasn’t careful).  I also knew that, although, I had faced up to my addiction, I also had to reveal it to others.  It is not easy to reveal that you are an addict to others, let alone yourself.  But, I need to be on the road to healing and, therefore, I must reveal my addiction to you, my trusted friends. Please, think no less of me once it is revealed, alright? I plead with you not to think less of me!
 
I am an addict….A 1911 addict. There! It is out in the open and I am feeling better already!  You don’t know what it is like living all those years as a closet 1911 addict. The feeling of being less than human because I worshipped at the John Moses Browning altar was a weight that I could no longer bear. The feeling of being sinful, of bringing shame to my family, of being embarrassed by the fact that I could hold a single-stack magazine in my hand without feeling guilty, is simply too much for one man surrounded by high capacity, polymer pistols to contain any longer.  I needed to free myself of this 1911 addiction in order to progress into a higher plane of existence.
 
I can never return to my former self. I can no longer smell or look at, let alone pick up, a well-oiled and superbly constructed 1911 pistol lest I fall back into my old, sinful ways. I can’t be that way anymore! I won’t let me be that way anymore!  I was drunk with 1911 fever at the time and I didn’t know what I was doing to myself and others. <Insert sobbing and gnashing of teeth at this point>. I didn’t want to hurt anyone. It just happened!
 
So now you know of my addiction. Or, should I say, my past addiction. Once step one is completed; however, step two follows.
 
I stepped from the shower, shaken from my revelation, but determined to dry myself off. Wiping the steam from the mirror, a strange face stared back at me.  I had never seen that face before; I had never seen those eyes before, but I did see a long hair growing in my nose where none was seen before.  The eyes of the image before me spoke loud and clear (well not necessarily so clear as I still had some sop in the eyes, but you know what I mean).  “You are a man. You are a warrior. You know what must be done!”  I quickly clipped the nose hair, turned out the light, and quickly fell into a dreamless sleep on the bed.
 
I awoke this morning with thoughts about what some people have said about me; “You never listen to anybody! You always do things your own way! You are so bull-headed, at times! Did you take out the recycling this morning?” I decided that I needed to listen – at least this once – to at least the first three things.
 
A voice pounded in my head; “They want you to have a high-capacity pistol! You must listen to them! They know what is best for you! W-h-o-o!  I started to get all goose-bumply and tears welled up in my eyes as I thought about my new-found freedom from my addiction.  It was readily apparent that to beat an addiction you must find a suitable substitute for that addiction.  In other words; drink coffee if you are addicted to alcohol, eat white, sugar-free mints if you are addicted to tobacco, or think about Hillary Clinton if you are addicted to porn (well, that may not work for some).
 
 A search began, in earnest, for a high-capacity pistol chambered in .45 ACP. Hey! When did I say I was giving up the addiction to the .45 ACP cartridge. Everybody needs at least one bad habit, sheesh!
 
  • Ruger SR45? – Out – good looking, nice trigger, good shooter, but still only a 10-round capacity with a long grip
  • New Ruger American in .45 ACP? Out – way too ugly and really not “high capacity!” 
  • Glock G21/G41? Out – high-capacity, but I might as well carry a 2x4!
  • CZ-97B? Out – hard to find and still not considered “high-capacity” by some.
  • FNYH-FX45? Out - High capacity, but you want how much for that and just how big a pistol can I carry IWB?
  • Beretta PX4 Storm? Out - great pistol but still not "high capacity" according to some.
  • Springfield Armory XDm 4.5? In – high capacity (13 round – same a Glock G21), features that I desire, can be concealed given proper dress and holster consideration, is a good looking and quality pistol.

The Springfield XDm 4.5 was ordered this morning as was a compatible holster from Black Arch Holsters.  I believe that I am well on the way from 1911 addiction recovery. Besides, isn’t that what progress is all about – moving from one addiction to another. What say you?
 
Quote
But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself
- (Garden Party - Ricky Nelson)

http://www.springfield-armory.com/products/xdm-4-5-45-acp/#XDM94545BHCE

[attach=1]
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

M1911A1

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2016, 03:30:21 PM »
About your essay:  ;D    ;D    ;D

On the Same Subject:
I already have a large-capacity pistol (and, no, I refuse to write "high-capacity" about that). In truth, I have several of them. Not only that, but they are all 1911s!
How could that be? To the initiated, it's easy: Just practice your reloading skills and carry lots of extra magazines. Oh, yeah: And if you can, learn to count your rounds as you shoot, and reload while you still have one shot left in the chamber.

Yes, I do admit to having "large-capacity" pistols: All of them shoot large bullets. That's their capacity, QED.
Steve,
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"Qui desiderat pacem, præparet bellum."

oldranger53

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2016, 08:57:19 PM »
I say, "BRAVO"!

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2016, 05:38:04 AM »
Oh, please, guys, do spare me the protestations.

Go, get yourself a Para Ordnance 14.45.

You now have a 14+1 1911. You can be happy now.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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Taurian

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2016, 06:13:22 AM »
Oh, please, guys, do spare me the protestations.

Go, get yourself a Para Ordnance 14.45.

You now have a 14+1 1911. You can be happy now.
I have one. Read a review of it @ http://guntoters.com/blog/2016/09/04/para-usa-expert-14-45-review/. And, I may invest in the Rock Island Armory version of it, at some point, to evaluate its worth.  Springfield Armory used to make a high-capacity 1911, but I think that they discontinued it, as I cannot find any vestige of it at their website.

And here I thought I would please you by purchasing a fine polymer pistol of high capacity in a major caliber.  It even has an under-rail, such was my desire to please you. I can now mount a flashlight, laser, flashlight/laser combination, forward vertical hand grip, or my favorite and compact Slim-Jim holder if I so desire ;D

It is all in fun, CR. All in fun  ;)
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

CR Williams

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2016, 07:03:39 AM »
Oh, I'm having fun, don't get me wrong.

Something you Glock owners might want to look into also is a flat trigger replacement. I have two from two different makers and I like them. Much improves the trigger movement/feel.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2016, 07:13:45 AM »
Oh, I'm having fun, don't get me wrong.

Something you Glock owners might want to look into also is a flat trigger replacement. I have two from two different makers and I like them. Much improves the trigger movement/feel.
One of my shooting buddies is talking about installing one of these in his G19. He recently installed a flat trigger in his 1911 and likes the concept.

If you would post URLs for those that you have, I will pass the information on to him. Thanks.
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2016, 07:32:56 AM »
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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CR Williams

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2016, 07:33:50 AM »
And because I'm just that kind of guy:

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/10/best-concealed-carry-revolvers/

Not that I think you should carry them as primaries, but hey...
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2016, 10:07:14 AM »
And because I'm just that kind of guy:

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/10/best-concealed-carry-revolvers/

Not that I think you should carry them as primaries, but hey...
And, just to show you that I am also "That kind of guy", I submit a link to an article that will say, "See, I've been telling you guys this all along...!"

Clay Martin: Marine Special Operators Trash 1911 for Glock 19!: https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/marine-special-operators-goodbye-1911-45-acp-hello-glock-19-9mm/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=20161007_FridayDigest_90&utm_campaign=/blog/marine-special-operators-goodbye-1911-45-acp-hello-glock-19-9mm/

 ;D
 
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

oldranger53

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2016, 10:07:14 AM »
Oh, please, guys, do spare me the protestations.

Go, get yourself a Para Ordnance 14.45.

You now have a 14+1 1911. You can be happy now.



<snicker>

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2016, 02:06:11 PM »
And because I'm just that kind of guy:

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/10/best-concealed-carry-revolvers/

Not that I think you should carry them as primaries, but hey...

Any gunriter who recommends the Taurus Judge as a concealed-carry option needs extensive psychiatric evaluation, and possibly also needs to spend some time in the local Happy Farm.

And I purposely spelled it "gunriter" because that particular gun-writer thinks that the thing that you look at, to make accurate shots, is called a "site."
Indeed, you do look at sites, but not on guns. Sites are more usually on the web.
Steve,
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"Qui desiderat pacem, præparet bellum."

oldranger53

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2016, 06:51:43 PM »
I had one of those poly framed Judge things a while back.  Was holding it for one of the boys for a while.  Shot it once or twice.

Eh, naw...not for me.

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

CR Williams

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2016, 06:15:01 AM »
Oh, please, guys, do spare me the protestations.

Go, get yourself a Para Ordnance 14.45.

You now have a 14+1 1911. You can be happy now.
I have one. Read a review of it @ http://guntoters.com/blog/2016/09/04/para-usa-expert-14-45-review/. And, I may invest in the Rock Island Armory version of it, at some point, to evaluate its worth.  Springfield Armory used to make a high-capacity 1911, but I think that they discontinued it, as I cannot find any vestige of it at their website.

And here I thought I would please you by purchasing a fine polymer pistol of high capacity in a major caliber.  It even has an under-rail, such was my desire to please you. I can now mount a flashlight, laser, flashlight/laser combination, forward vertical hand grip, or my favorite and compact Slim-Jim holder if I so desire ;D

It is all in fun, CR. All in fun  ;)

I forgot you already have one. You should give it to me. I will appreciate it more than you do as it will be the only 1911-pattern pistol I have.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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www.inshadowinlight.com

oldranger53

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2016, 06:24:52 AM »
Reading all these posts makes me want two more pistols!

I'm having nearly uncontrollable urges to go out and buy a 1)Glock 19, and 2)RIA 5" GI model.
But then, I'd also have to have a Glock 17 and a RIA TACTICAL too.

Ohhhh so many pistols.
So little money!

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2016, 09:48:09 AM »
Reading all these posts makes me want two more pistols!

I'm having nearly uncontrollable urges to go out and buy a 1)Glock 19, and 2)RIA 5" GI model.
But then, I'd also have to have a Glock 17 and a RIA TACTICAL too.

Ohhhh so many pistols.
So little money!

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>


You might as well throw in a G26 as well, since mentioning double-stack 9mm Glock pistols.

If I were to invest further into RIA products, I would go for the "Ultra" series (FS, MS, and CS just to have a "complete" family); VZ G10 grips, ambidextrous thumb safety, better sights (rear adjustable). For a little price difference, you could also consider the Ruger SR1911 (standard 70-series w/standard guide rod configuration) or a Springfield "Loaded" (standard 70-series w/2-piece full-length guide rod).  If there is to be another 1911 to come into the fold, it would be a Springfield "Loaded" in stainless-steel.

But, as I mentioned earlier, I am over the 1911 addiction. So far, there has been no side effects, side effects, side effects  ;D
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

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Re: Five Great Concealed Carry Handguns
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2016, 02:07:14 PM »
...Ohhhh so many pistols.
So little money!

Finally, I have cured my own addiction: I have come to the conclusion that I have absolutely no use for any other guns. I'm just too old.
I've got more pistols than I can use now, and my rifle-shooting days are long gone.
And my kids neither want any of what I've got, nor do they live in gun-friendly states.

I see something interesting in one of the magazines, my interest perks up, and then I realize that if I were to buy it, I'd still never get to shoot it.
Even Mike Venturino's machine guns leave me unmoved.

Oh, well...
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, præparet bellum."