Author Topic: Turkey's last hope dies  (Read 803 times)

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Taurian

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Turkey's last hope dies
« on: July 16, 2016, 11:19:49 AM »
Quote
Friday night’s failed coup was Turkey’s last hope to stop the Islamization of its government and the degradation of its society.  Reflexively, Western leaders rushed to condemn a coup attempt they refused to understand. Their reward will be a toxic Islamist regime at the gates of Europe.

And, has world-wide implications

The article can be found (including video) at: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/07/16/turkeys-last-hope-dies.html?AID=7236
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

M1911A1

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Re: Turkey's last hope dies
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2016, 07:15:50 PM »
Here's a quote from the Fox News story: "For almost a century, the Turkish armed forces have been the guardians of the country’s secular constitution."

Sorry, folks, but that's pure bull-puckey.

Government-by-coup is not government. The people have no real "say" in the coup or its outcome. But a real, functional, effective government requires the consent of the governed.
Military coups happen because the military leadership has no confidence in the civilian government. But in a real and effective government, the civilian government itself is the boss over the military. (Compare and contrast to the run-of-the-mill African or South American kleptocracy.)
Military governments are, by the very nature of military hierarchy, one-leader dictatorships. That's why it is more normal that an effective civilian government is constitutionally the military's boss.

The failed coup in Turkey was the country's last hope?
Try, as a mental exercise, visualizing the US under the same conditions.
Would a military coup be our country's last hope? Would you want it to be?

In which country, Turkey or the US, does the government best retain the consent of the people?
(Hint: It ain't Turkey.)

Turkish History:
The constitutional government of Turkey began with a military coup headed by Mustafa Kemal "Ataturk." Ataturk remained the dictator of Turkey from 1920 until he died in 1938, at which point the Turkish constitutional government finally began its operations.
How stable has the Turkish constitutional government been? Well, there have been 100 years of military interventions so far, the most recent ones taking place in 1960, 1971, 1980, and 1997.
Turkey is a "modern, European-style" Islamic nation because Ataturk dragged it, kicking and screaming, into the 20th century. But his personal, charismatic power did not extinguish the feelings in a surprisingly large number of Turks that Ataturk's "western-style" nation was not exactly what they wanted. And there has been political and religious-led unrest ever since.
The movement of Turkish sentiment toward a purer form of Islam and Islamic-style politics is the negative remainder from Ataturk's original, not-universally-wanted military coup. It's an "underground stream" that gets more powerful every year.
Only the defeat of the radical-terrorist fundamentalist movement will re-direct Turkish politics, and the normal civilian government of Turkey has always been aligned with doing that. It just wasn't fast enough, or (dare I say it) radical enough, to suit the plans of the Turkish military high command.

No military coup is good news. Not in Turkey, and not in Africa or South America either.
I'm glad that the Turkish Army lost.
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

Taurian

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Re: Turkey's last hope dies
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2016, 10:33:44 AM »
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

M1911A1

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Re: Turkey's last hope dies
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2016, 12:34:57 PM »
If it is indeed true that Erdogan's son helps to fund ISIS, how does that make Erdogan himself guilty of anything? Is he his grown-up son's keeper?
Does the entire Bin Laden family bear some sort of guilt for the murderously criminal behavior of Osama?

Don't be ridiculous!

It was both a Nazi and a Soviet trick, to make an entire family bear the guilt of the misbehavior of one of its members. It's something that dictators do, to keep the "little people" in line.

Besides, American Action News, whomever that is, presents absolutely no proof of any kind, to back up its assertion that Erdogan's son helps to fund ISIS. Therefore, I remain unconvinced, and I think that I smell a pile of bull-puckey.
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

Taurian

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Re: Turkey's last hope dies
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2016, 01:07:09 PM »
...Therefore, I remain unconvinced, and I think that I smell a pile of bull-puckey.
But, it is not my bull-puckey, which is better bull-puckey than most. I just pass (no pun intended) bull-puckey along for y'all to determine if it is worth stepping in.

Obviously, you are more versed in Turkey's politics than I.  I don't even like Turkey at Thanksgiving - it puts me to sleep and Turkey-Jerky is for the birds.

I am just hoping that the problems in Turkey don't become our problems - we have enough as it is.  And besides, Turkeys are not great fliers so why do they need coups when a sudan would do?
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

M1911A1

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Re: Turkey's last hope dies
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2016, 02:09:22 PM »
...why do they need coups when a sudan would do?

 ;D    ;D    ;D
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."