Gun Toters

Carrying, Weapons, Accessories, and Related => CR Williams - Drill of the Month => Topic started by: CR Williams on December 02, 2011, 11:52:23 AM

Title: Scenario: Going Down In More Ways Than One
Post by: CR Williams on December 02, 2011, 11:52:23 AM
This is offered here the way it was originally written for the 'Ask The Experts' special report done by USCCA. (I did four scenarios for that; two were used.) It was watered down so that those experts polled could emphasize de-escalation over action. The report was so disappointing to me I got a refund on it, by the way.

This is one you spring on people like Coastie who claim to have complete and consistent situational awareness. :P ;) :D

I'll skip any set-up. Here's what you have:

As it usually happens--I can explain why it happens this way, but it's not germane to the scenario--you are on the left side of the elevator and (in the basic variation) one other passenger is on the opposite side. You are fully armed as normal. Assume you are in your home jurisdiction where such laws apply.

The elevator stops, the doors begin to open, and the first thing you notice is a flash of light, reflected light from the blade of the knife that the man stepping into the elevator is holding level at his waist.

This is the start-point. Before you start really thinking about re-action options, you might want to search for videos of prison knife attacks or try the search term 'sewing-machine knife attack' or variations. That is what you will be more likely to see on the street, not the well-defined martial-arts-style knife attacks that most self-defense demonstrations use most often. After that, here are the variations:

The man doesn't pause but heads straight for the other passenger to start stabbing them to death.

The man hesitates a second in the doorway, picks the passenger.

The man hesitates a second in the doorway, picks you.

There are at least four people in the elevator counting you, you are in the back left corner (reverse if left-handed), and the first indication of an attack is the grunt of the person in front of you as the man stabs them in the stomach the first time as soon as he can after the doors start to open.

At least four people, but you're in the other corner.

Airsoft setup:

The main problem here is allowing for surprise. You can try having the shooter close their eyes until you announce the door-opening that starts the run, you can have the shooter facing away from the 'door' and turning in a timing that simulates the door opening, or have the shooter recite some selected Shakespeare, scripture, a memorized speech of note, or their favorite part of the Iliad or to inhibit immediate reaction.

Otherwise: Mark out a square as big as an average elevator and designate the front. Everybody has to stay inside of that throughout. One or more people take the assigned places with the shooter. Knifer with training blade takes place outside 'door' and is briefed or decides for themselves who they go after first. On the start, knifer steps across the threshold and commences to knifing and shooter takes action deemed appropriate.

NOTE: Knifer at no point goes immediately and directly after shooter. Even in the second variation, knifer must pause to simulate the hesitation and choice between targets. There is a specific reason for this restriction. If knifer goes right to shooter, the run is invalidated.

ALSO: At random intervals, there should be no knife, just somebody else getting on the elevator to go to another floor.

Live-fire: Targets for as many people as you have in the elevator and one target for the knifer. IMPORTANT: Knifer target must be placed inside the door of the elevator in order to accommodate the movement of the knifer over the time of the shooter's comprehension of the attack from a zero-cue start. Shooter must begin the run facing the doorway or however the shooter normally stands in an elevator. (Be honest about this, shooters.) It might be better to place two 'knifer' targets a short step apart to accommodate the hypothetical knifer movement into the elevator. To simulate comprehension delay, shooter can either recite another section of the Iliad prior to the start signal or shout ONE before moving at the start signal.

Shooter can move as they wish within the confines of the 'elevator' and take whatever action they deem appropriate.

Any questions?

Naturally, I have a couple for you to work through:

What is the question that needs to be answered when considering your re-action to this hypothetical event?

What concepts/ideas/things to work on and with are being presented or stressed in this scenario?

Shooter ready? Go...
Title: Re: Scenario: Going Down In More Ways Than One
Post by: Bill MO on December 02, 2011, 04:03:00 PM
CR I see this as having to be there to really know what I would do. This to me could and maybe should be time for H2H not gun fire.

In the case of only you and one other and BG going for the other I can see shooting. If the attack is on you there most likely will not be time to bring the gun into play at all, at at least until you make time and space to do so.

With 4 people on the elevator I have to ask, can you shoot and not hit others while shooting the BG? Shoot throughs would be another question to be asked. With this situation I see the gun being used as a club to the back of the head more than a firearm, if you have room to get to the BG.

This is a place I would not choose to find myself in. But then I don't choose to be in any situation a gun is needed or H2H.

This is what comes to my mind with a quick read of the OP. If you where caught in this type situation it would have to be quick thinking then too. It really would not be thinking just reaction, this is why training matters.