Author Topic: You're the Advisor  (Read 3319 times)

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CR Williams

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You're the Advisor
« on: May 26, 2015, 05:56:20 AM »
This one is a mental exercise in which you will tell me what my options are and which options are good and bad and why.

Assume I come to you wanting to know what can be done in the following situation:

From the sidewalk to my front door is twelve or fifteen feet give or take. I have a porch about five feet deep, concrete slab four inches or five inches high. There are short bushes and stands at the front corners and short bushes along the front of the house so I can do forward or forward angle to either side off the porch. There is a step-up into the house. Facing the street the front door opens in to the right against the wall of the largest room in the house. You have to angle left a little going in or you would run into a short projecting wall directly behind the door across the room. And there's stuff directly in-line with the door that I'll trip over if I don't angle right a bit anyway. Door is heavy (old house, old construction) and locks with a deadbolt but the doorknob latch doesn't work.

I'm standing either right in front (almost heels to step-up) of the door or in the doorway itself facing someone charging from the sidewalk and I have normal EDC (currently a small Glock set up for left-hand access) under cover as usual.

Your exercise is too:

Give me all the options that are reasonably available.
Tell me which ones are good, which ones are bad, and why.
Pick one to recommend as a 'probably best' option for me. Tell me why it's better than the others.

Got it? Request any information you think you need to assist with your advisement. I may provide a hint as to the nature of the approach to this problem later. That depends on what I see by way of response.

Go.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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pop pop

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2015, 07:32:32 AM »
Would seem to me that if you are still in the house and exiting, I would simply shut the door and lock it(DB). Call 911. A fight averted is a fight won in todays world.

The guy is so close (Tuller Drill) that he can reach you almost before you can evade or move off the line and draw, but draw only if he has a wepon displayed. By the way it seems moving off the line would be good also,(right or left), but I don't know if you have the luxery of enough time and space and are able to fight with your hands. Twelve to fifteen feet + 5' is a very close distance to react too. 

Also another option is get ready to get physical and just meet agression with hand to hand provided no visible wepon is displayed by te charger.

IMO, best option, shut and lock the door, if you are still inside.

oldranger53

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2015, 11:56:56 AM »
When I get off the road I'll try my hand at advising.

Sent from phone. Typos possible.

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

M1911A1

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2015, 02:05:21 PM »
I agree with Roger's assessment.
If at all possible, put that thick door between you and the person who's advancing on you.

If the door's closed and you're outside of it, then step quickly out of his line of advance, and maybe even go counter to his movement, go around him, and get behind him.
No weapon is required until he produces one, especially if you're now behind him. Use your "command voice," and tell him to get off of your property "right now."
Steve,
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"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

CR Williams

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2015, 05:22:20 AM »
I see I left a detail out. It's a double-sided deadbolt lock, needs a key on the inside too. Also, I should say that at the time of the charge the door is open. Without at least the regular doorknob working there is not time to close and lock the door against the charger. My estimation of time and distance indicates that I likely could not shut the door and throw a latch in time either but I may be wrong about that.

Also, going home yesterday I can see that it would be easier to go forward off the porch to my right than to my left. I can still go left but it's a tighter gap out that side.

This will likely change the evaluations of my possibilities.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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oldranger53

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2015, 06:01:28 AM »
Before I head out this morning, I request some additional details.
For instance, are any of my dependents at home with me?

 And for me, am I myself, or am I in the role of someone with zero experience in hand to hand or armed conflict?

To me it matters what there is to be protected.

Wife and kids home? If yes, then summary execution of this bad guy is definitely on the table. If not, then there may be room for compassion in the pending combat.

Sent from phone. Typos possible.

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

pop pop

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2015, 04:55:38 AM »


First off, I would have fix the door (unlocable knob) and leave a spare key in the inside locking cylender in the deadbolt, long before this time. I do that with my own both side keyed door locks if the door has no glass that can be broken. You can leave it pulled out a little and still lock the deadbolt from the outside or quickly from the inside. IMO, your preporation, and home security, is lacking in this situation. Also survey the area before leaving the home(awareness) is a factor. If this guy was 12 feet from your front porch, don't go out would be a fix.

If it is impossible to stay inside the house and close and lock the door then, if you are right handed, by all means exit the porch to your right. One always moves better to move toward strong side. Also gives you some cover to draw if you are forced into that because the charger displays a weapon of any kind. I would not go directly toward him unless I wanted to keep the hight advantage, if the raised porch is an advantage to you.

If there is not a "very big" dispairity difference, and I mean BIG, or previous knowledge of threat of violence from the charger, then drawing your pistol is not warranted. You only defense, IMO, is going hand to hand or running like a rabbit, which there is no shame in doing at my station in life. If you can't vacate the scene then get ready to go hand to hand, or use commanding voice then resort to a less than lethal tool if you have it(pepper spray), because just charging someone is not grounds to shoot them. If I had pepper spray then I would want the hight advantage and stay on the raised front porch to use the spray. You will still have the option, if the guy don't stop his charge, to step off the line and evade his charge. I would practice avoidance if at all possible.

In the situation you have described, one could possibly end up like Zimmerman, if you resort to pulling your gun and shooting the guy. That is the way I see it.


CR Williams

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2015, 05:29:16 AM »
Before I head out this morning, I request some additional details.
For instance, are any of my dependents at home with me?

 And for me, am I myself, or am I in the role of someone with zero experience in hand to hand or armed conflict?

To me it matters what there is to be protected.

Wife and kids home? If yes, then summary execution of this bad guy is definitely on the table. If not, then there may be room for compassion in the pending combat.

Sent from phone. Typos possible.

In this one you are advising me. That's why I'm attempting to provide details of the layout as I have it now at the house I'm in.

I'm looking for a particular approach to the problem out of this exercise.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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www.inshadowinlight.com

CR Williams

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2015, 05:37:51 AM »


First off, I would have fix the door (unlockable knob) and leave a spare key in the inside locking cylender in the deadbolt, long before this time. I do that with my own both side keyed door locks if the door has no glass that can be broken. You can leave it pulled out a little and still lock the deadbolt from the outside or quickly from the inside. IMO, your preparation, and home security, is lacking in this situation. Also survey the area before leaving the home(awareness) is a factor. If this guy was 12 feet from your front porch, don't go out would be a fix.

I keep the key in the inside lock when I'm there but not when I leave.

Your suggestions about preparation and awareness are good. For the purposes of the exercise I'm just focusing on the idea that the charge is on and I'm basically in the doorway. Good evaluation so far.

I'll hold off until the weekend is over to see if anyone else has something for feedback, after which I will ask a question that might help. If I can remember I'll get a photo up of the area between now and then too.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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oldranger53

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2015, 06:04:57 AM »
Before I head out this morning, I request some additional details.
For instance, are any of my dependents at home with me?

 And for me, am I myself, or am I in the role of someone with zero experience in hand to hand or armed conflict?

To me it matters what there is to be protected.

Wife and kids home? If yes, then summary execution of this bad guy is definitely on the table. If not, then there may be room for compassion in the pending combat.

Sent from phone. Typos possible.

In this one you are advising me. That's why I'm attempting to provide details of the layout as I have it now at the house I'm in.

I'm looking for a particular approach to the problem out of this exercise.

I understand.
In this visualization, I visualize myself as the defender of the home and whatever is Inide it.

I'll do things differently depending on what's at stake.

Also, I may well advise some other man to use the door for a barrier, while I myself might meet tge aggressor on the concerete steps and use the high ground and steps themselves as weapons.

I'll be much less likely to allow the bad guy to reach the house if wife and or other loved ones inside...
But that's just me.

"what do I know"
But, what DO I know, really?
Not much, on the grand stage of life, but I'm still alive abd functioning.
Many I've known over the years have not lived to converse about these things.

How I value what's behind me almost always modifies how I deal with what's in front of me.

(I've been reading)

Sent from phone. Typos possible.

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

CR Williams

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2015, 05:14:45 AM »
I understand.
In this visualization, I visualize myself as the defender of the home and whatever is Inide it.

I'll do things differently depending on what's at stake.

Also, I may well advise some other man to use the door for a barrier, while I myself might meet tge aggressor on the concerete steps and use the high ground and steps themselves as weapons.

I'll be much less likely to allow the bad guy to reach the house if wife and or other loved ones inside...
But that's just me.

"what do I know"
But, what DO I know, really?
Not much, on the grand stage of life, but I'm still alive abd functioning.
Many I've known over the years have not lived to converse about these things.

How I value what's behind me almost always modifies how I deal with what's in front of me.

(I've been reading)

Sent from phone. Typos possible.

Hmmmm....that last bit sounds familiar.... 8)

If you want to put yourself in that spot in another run that's okay. I'm trying to generate an outside perspective in this exercise because that often changes what people see. What I am looking for here is the exerciser--you-all--considering all the options and particularly a certain category of resources and use of resources available to you that I don't see as often considered among gun-bearers.

I live alone so the only thing I have in the house is stuff. Some of that stuff is move valuable to me than others. And while I'm not inclined to handwave it off as 'I got insurance' or 'it can be replaced' as quickly as many others, it still is pretty much just a bunch of stuff in the end. I take priority over stuff.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

In Shadow In Light - Studying and advancing the art and the science of the fight.

www.inshadowinlight.com

oldranger53

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2015, 05:30:52 AM »
A quick thought before I head out for today's ice capades.

I believe in using any and all things the local environment has to offer, as far as weaponry and tactical advantages.

The porch is elevated, and has nice thick concrete.
Gravity can be your friend.

Ok, gotta run.

Sent from phone. Typos possible.

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

M1911A1

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2015, 02:35:32 PM »
"Ice Capades"!   ;D    ;D    ;D
Steve,
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"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

CR Williams

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2015, 01:55:05 PM »
Oldranger53 is heading in the right direction.

How can I use terrain as a weapon?
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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Taurian

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2015, 01:42:47 PM »
Is a security door installed?  If so, in what direction does the security door open?
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

CR Williams

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2015, 05:41:24 AM »
Not sure if I'd call it a security door. It's old construction so it's a nice thick heavy wood door. Opens inside to the right if you're in the house. Goes along the wall of the front room.
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Taurian

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2015, 07:03:51 AM »
Not sure if I'd call it a security door. It's old construction so it's a nice thick heavy wood door. Opens inside to the right if you're in the house. Goes along the wall of the front room.

A security door would replace a storm or screen door;  it would open outward.  Most are installed so that when entering the house, the door handles of each door are on the same side.  In your layout, as you entered the house, you would pull the security door open and to the left.  Your main door handle would then be on the right; you would open the main door inward and to the left against the wall on your left.

However, it seems that you do not have a security/storm/screen outer door.

Facing outward to the street, what is to the left of the door?  What is the distance from the front door access to the first access to the right and left of the door?  How large is the foyer (if one)?

I'm assuming that a charge from the front would limit your lateral or rearward movement?
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

CR Williams

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Re: You're the Advisor
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2015, 05:37:01 AM »

Facing outward to the street, what is to the left of the door?  What is the distance from the front door access to the first access to the right and left of the door?  How large is the foyer (if one)?

I'm assuming that a charge from the front would limit your lateral or rearward movement?

Standing just outside the door, directly left I get about three feet of porch and then thick bushes in front of the house. I can angle about 30 degrees and be in the front yard. Just inside the door, a few odd food dishes and an old striking dummy in that order immediately left of the doorway. I can move obliquely left and back for six or eight feet or more obliquely back about ten or twelve.

Immediately in line with the door are containers for cat food and a barbell next to a manual treadmill which is against the wall. Clearing the step-up of the door at speed would send you into those items if you could not correct to your right going in within a normal step-and-a-half at most.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

In Shadow In Light - Studying and advancing the art and the science of the fight.

www.inshadowinlight.com