Author Topic: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships  (Read 5646 times)

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RayMich

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USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« on: August 20, 2013, 07:57:54 AM »
Today I went to the USCCA web page to try to renew my membership and lo and behold they are now charging a 7% sales tax on our membership. This is something that was NEVER done before.

I called their Customer Service and spoke to Heather. She told me that due to their rapid growth, they have decided to charge a sales tax on their memberships.

I informed her that 1) Memberships and services are not taxed in my state. Even memberships that include a magazine like the NRA membership are NOT taxed. Additionally, even if those were taxable items in my state, our sales tax rate is 6% and NOT 7% like they are charging. Since my state does NOT charge a sales tax on membership services, this amounts to additional enrichment to Tim and Delta Media under false pretenses.

Heather told me that I would have to send her a copy of my Sales Tax license and after reviewing it they would then refund the sales tax back to my credit card. Well, I DO have a Michigan Sales tax license, but I am NOT about to send it to a company that has completely disregarded its paying customers' concerns over the last 3 years and has unilaterally decide to start charging a tax on a service that is not taxable in my state.

This is the LAST STRAW for me. I will NOT pay an illegally charged tax and I will NOT be renewing my membership in the USCCA. Any company that unilaterally dictates to its paying customer base without regard for the customers' concerns and doesn't even have the decency to respond to its customers concerns and even CANCELS the user forum to silence the voice of the customer, does NOT deserve my support.

There are other programs that are a whole lot better than the crappy service provided by Tim, USCCA and Delta Media.

So long USCCA, it was NOT a pleasure being associated with you!

- Ray -

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pstan13

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2013, 09:26:17 AM »
Could this be considered fraud? If your state tax is only 6%, will Tim pay your state 7% or what happens to the other money?
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Spenson1981

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2013, 12:42:17 PM »
Being from NY, one of the taxation capitals of the US, and, Managing a Parts sales department, I know that we have to have the tax % for each county and sometimes cities in specific that have a higher tax than the county.  This action by USCCA seems a little fishey.

jtg452

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2013, 01:13:28 PM »
The more I hear about this guy and his outfit, the more I'm glad I never got involved with it. :-X

Robert Harvey

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 04:11:27 PM »
 by activating your membership today, you authorize USCCA, Inc. to automatically renew your membership, charged to the method of payment provided. 100% risk-free, cancel anytime thanks to our Bulletproof Money-back Guarantee. See Terms of Use for membership details.
Time will tell.

NorCalChuck

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 05:57:44 PM »
Looks to that Tim has surrounded himself with some pretty shady people.
If this comes from Tim than he is certainly not the person that I thought that he was.
With growth comes employees and responsibilities . . . . He may have given responsibilities to the wrong people. But that may be the optimist in me . . . the cynic in me says he has lost it . . . .
"We will have a good government as long as those that govern are effected by those laws that they pass. When those that are passing the laws are no longer effected by those laws then they will no longer pass good laws."

Brademan

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 11:11:13 PM »
Chuck, I think Tim is exactly the kind of person who would come up with this.  It's the story of a good idea gone tragically wrong.
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M1911A1

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2013, 11:53:50 PM »
If the association is doing as well as Tim has implied that it is doing, and if new members are signing up for the insurance in droves, why does the association have to fiddle with possibly-imaginary sales tax?

There is another possible explanation, though.
Since the association essentially operates in every state in the Union, it may be that it now does really have to charge sales tax...on something. Maybe also the 50 different calculations required, to satisfy each and every separate state, is a burdensome problem. So the decision was made to charge a sort of average sales tax, and then to apportion it to the states as required.

However, my (now feeble) memory tells me that insurance sales and magazine-subscription sales are not normally taxable in any state.
Maybe association-membership dues are taxable...but I doubt it.
Steve,
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RayMich

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2013, 07:17:26 AM »
I have never been required to pay sales tax for any insurance, or association membership, or magazine subscription. Him charging an extra 7% on every membership renewal comes out to a nice chunk of change for him.

I have been an NRA member for more than 35 years and have never been charged sales tax for their membership. Same for AAA membership, as well as various other professional organizations.

I think that Tim sees $$$dollar$$$ signs every time he wakes up in the morning and tries to figure out a new way to charge the members. This was the last straw for me. I did NOT renew the USCCA membership.

If I can't trust him on the way he is running the USCCA, how can I trust him with any kind of insurance, especially when he even tells you that we did not own any insurance; the USCCA owns the insurance. The whole thing hinges on his "board of directors" agreeing to back you if you are ever involved in a self defense shooting. I don't trust Tim.

When I saw that Marty Hayes and Massad Ayoob bailed out from the USCCA board, THAT was a big RED FLAG for me.
- Ray -

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Robert Harvey

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2013, 08:00:43 AM »
Would it be fraud, tax fraud to charge a tax when it is not required. Then keep the money for themselves?

Time will tell.

pstan13

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2013, 08:34:03 AM »
Would it be fraud, tax fraud to charge a tax when it is not required. Then keep the money for themselves?

YES!
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M1911A1

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2013, 03:35:32 PM »
...And not only that, but it would be illegal as well.  :o



...When I saw that Marty Hayes and Massad Ayoob bailed out from the USCCA board, THAT was a big RED FLAG for me.
I didn't know that
I think that information is definitive.

That "red flag" you mentioned now says MINEFIELD!
Steve,
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flyover

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2013, 11:28:52 AM »
I recently downloaded the Armed Citizensí Legal Defense Network form and it appears that they donít charge sales tax.  I havenít joined yet but leaning hard in their direction. It doesnít seem to have the Mickey Mouse language that Timís insurance had. You know, we might pay, maybe, if, etc, etc.

Robert Harvey

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2013, 03:49:15 PM »
I recently downloaded the Armed Citizensí Legal Defense Network form and it appears that they donít charge sales tax.  I havenít joined yet but leaning hard in their direction. It doesnít seem to have the Mickey Mouse language that Timís insurance had. You know, we might pay, maybe, if, etc, etc.
The videos you get for being a member is worth the fee, and renewal is cheaper than the initial signup.
Go for it! I have to watch every penny, I joined and put my son on it when he got his carry, once my wife gets hers I will add her to it also.

Robert
Time will tell.

Brademan

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2013, 09:03:11 PM »
I recently downloaded the Armed Citizensí Legal Defense Network form and it appears that they donít charge sales tax.  I havenít joined yet but leaning hard in their direction. It doesnít seem to have the Mickey Mouse language that Timís insurance had. You know, we might pay, maybe, if, etc, etc.

Flyover I encourage you to research the ACLDN all you want.  Please check us with any and all current members and look to our Board, which includes Massad Ayoob, Tom Givens, John Farnam and others of similar note.  We are in our tenth year, nationally and we are the real deal.  I hope to see you as a member.  Thank you for being cautious, as we all should be.
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crzyjarmans

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2013, 03:57:53 PM »


I called their Customer Service and spoke to Heather. She told me that due to their rapid growth, they have decided to charge a sales tax on their memberships.



Due to there rapid growth!, That's laughable ;D
Shawn, Stay armed, Stay safe

M1911A1

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2013, 07:17:52 PM »
Hmmm...
Heather's answer is interestingly larcenous.

Either they must collect sales tax, according to law, or they need not collect sales tax at all.
It's not a matter of "rapid growth" or the size of the membership rolls.
If they should've been collecting the tax but haven't, they're gonna be in trouble with some government.
If they needn't collect the tax but are anyway, it's fraud and they're open to at least a civil penalty.
Steve,
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MASTER BLASTER

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2013, 10:06:29 AM »
Steve:
Not necessarily, in many jurisdictions "sales tax" is in actuality gross receipts tax. Merchants have the responsibility to pay it but not the responsibility to collect it. In other words as long as it is paid to the applicable jurisdiction, the merchant can either collect it separately or absorb it into their price structure.

M1911A1

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2013, 08:40:02 PM »
Steve:
Not necessarily, in many jurisdictions "sales tax" is in actuality gross receipts tax. Merchants have the responsibility to pay it but not the responsibility to collect it. In other words as long as it is paid to the applicable jurisdiction, the merchant can either collect it separately or absorb it into their price structure.

Thanks, MB. I hadn't thought of that.
When I owned a business, it was in California, in L.A. County. I was required to charge, collect from customers, and pay to the county, the appropriate sales tax.
But, yes, I could just add the tax into the retail price, and not charge the customer for it separately. Of course, I then had to separate it out and pay it to the county.
Steve,
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CedarElm7

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2013, 06:05:56 PM »
Flyover I encourage you to research the ACLDN all you want.  Please check us with any and all current members and look to our Board, which includes Massad Ayoob, Tom Givens, John Farnam and others of similar note.  We are in our tenth year, nationally and we are the real deal.  I hope to see you as a member.  Thank you for being cautious, as we all should be.

I went with ACLDN several months ago and am very glad I did.
Brad

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Brademan

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2013, 10:20:19 PM »
Flyover I encourage you to research the ACLDN all you want.  Please check us with any and all current members and look to our Board, which includes Massad Ayoob, Tom Givens, John Farnam and others of similar note.  We are in our tenth year, nationally and we are the real deal.  I hope to see you as a member.  Thank you for being cautious, as we all should be.

I went with ACLDN several months ago and am very glad I did.

Thank you for your kind respects.  Proud to have you as a member.
Brademan
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RayMich

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2013, 10:09:19 AM »
I've been a member of the ACLDN for more than 4 1/2 years. Longer than I was a USCCA member.

I am VERY HAPPY I joined ACLDN. - You get straight talk and ZERO BS...

Having Marty Hayes, Massad Ayoob and the rest of the network on your side in case the unthinkable happens will give you a very comfortable feeling.

I highly recommend for everyone here to attend Massad Ayoob's training and classroom seminars. Extremely valuable for anyone contemplating owning and carrying a gun for self defense.
- Ray -

"The Constitution is NOT and instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

Robert Harvey

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2013, 11:26:50 AM »
I've been a member of the ACLDN for more than 4 1/2 years. Longer than I was a USCCA member.

I am VERY HAPPY I joined ACLDN. - You get straight talk and ZERO BS...

Having Marty Hayes, Massad Ayoob and the rest of the network on your side in case the unthinkable happens will give you a very comfortable feeling.

Time will tell.

CedarElm7

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2013, 11:33:38 AM »
I highly recommend for everyone here to attend Massad Ayoob's training and classroom seminars. Extremely valuable for anyone contemplating owning and carrying a gun for self defense.

Ray, do you by chance have a link to training seminars offered by Massad Ayoob?  Thanks!
Brad

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crzyjarmans

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2013, 08:32:31 AM »
Just thought of this, when I was a long haul truck driver, My income tax depended on what state I lived in, For example, I use to drive for Western Dist. transportation out of Denver,Co, My taxes was est. for Nevada, now I'm not sure, But wouldn't Tim have to abide by each states sales tax?
Shawn, Stay armed, Stay safe

RayMich

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Re: USCCA is now ILLEGALLY Charging a Sales Tax on Memberships
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2013, 11:58:57 AM »
I highly recommend for everyone here to attend Massad Ayoob's training and classroom seminars. Extremely valuable for anyone contemplating owning and carrying a gun for self defense.

Ray, do you by chance have a link to training seminars offered by Massad Ayoob?  Thanks!
Here is a link to his website...
http://massadayoobgroup.com/
- Ray -

"The Constitution is NOT and instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry