Author Topic: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?  (Read 4975 times)

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Charles1951

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Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« on: March 08, 2013, 08:14:32 AM »
Has anybody used a Zero Concealment Systems holster? http://shop.zeroconcealmentsystems.com/main.sc The last IDPA carbine match I shot helped me realize two shortcomings of my carry setup. One was the pistol holster. Although I generally like the PJ Holster I have, it can move around on my belt after I draw the pistol meaning that when I need to re-holster it is not where I expect it to be. I really don't want to fumble with my gear during competition.

The second shortcoming is the magazine carrier for an AR mag. I have just been using the pockets of my jeans which is not too bad but thought I would try something else to see if that was better so I tried a pouch like carrier that was a complete disappointment. ZCS has a solution for both of these problems but I have not heard much about them so I thought I would ask.
Charles

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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson

Charles1951

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Re: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2013, 03:35:18 PM »
Well, I'm too impatient, I guess. I went ahead and ordered a holster, pistol mag pouch, and a rifle mag pouch. Their stuff looks a lot like Bravo Concealment which is good for IDPA. I'll write up a review when it comes in. Lead time shouldn't be too bad. They say they try to keep it under 30 days. I went with ZCS because of price and turn-around time. Of course, having a holster for my PPQ was first priority.
Charles

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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson

Taurian

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Re: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2013, 10:22:17 AM »
I look forward to your review(s).
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

Charles1951

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Re: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2013, 03:07:18 PM »
The new holster and mag carriers arrived yesterday just in time for the IDPA carbine match today. Last night I ran through some practice drills just drawing from holster with an empty gun and trying the mag holders, etc. I wasn't real happy with pistol magazine holster because it was too tight holding the mags so elected to not try it at the match today. The pistol holster was pretty tight holding the gun but after working with it some I decided I would try it at the match because it did loosen some. The AR-15 mag pouch was ok as is but a little uncomfortable to wear. For that I may switch positions for the mag holsters next time.

Bottom line, I'm happy with the pistol holster and the AR-15 mag holster. Those two solved my original concerns with my set up for the carbine matches. I have plenty of pistol magazine holsters so I'll take my time working out the issues with this particular mag holster.
Charles

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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson

M1911A1

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Re: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2013, 08:46:26 PM »
It offends my senses of cupidity and parsimoniousness, that the holster is about three times as wide as the pistol's slide. And it's awfully square, too.

I hope that the profligracy of the manufacturer's use of materials results in a more comfortable rig.

(I also hope that you have a dictionary.  ;D )
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

commonground

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Re: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 03:39:03 AM »
Yeh, what Steve said. I think. :o :o :o  The name "Zero Concealment Systems holsters" implies that it is open carry only.  Like, you cannot possibly conceal it.
“do not go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things at stupid times.” - Gabe Suarez

Charles1951

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Re: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 11:17:46 AM »
Interesting replies, guys.  :) Yes, there is a lot of Kydex used which seems to be a popular trend of some holster makers. I think the idea there is to distribute the weight and outline of the gun.

As to being concealable, with a light cover garment it is concealable because it rides high and that satisfies requirements for IDPA. (Notice the thin profile of the holster in the picture below. Please ignore the not so thin profile of the wearer. ;D) There is also the option of using IWB Tuckable mounting hardware.
Charles

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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson

Taurian

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Re: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 12:10:24 PM »
If it does the job that you intend for it to do, that's is all that matters. It would seem that it is stable, as there is plenty of real estate surrounding the firearm and the magazines. Besides, (according to one politician) the magazine carriers would only be temporary as you would throw away the magazines after you fired all of the bullets anyway (where do these people come from?).

I don't think that this would be a rig that I would wear for EDC. For competition...
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

M1911A1

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Re: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 05:37:52 PM »
...I don't think that this would be a rig that I would wear for EDC. For competition...

With all due respect, I am driven to write that this is exactly the "wrong" attitude.

I cannot understand why one would wear one rig for EDC, and another, different rig for competition.

But then, I also have trouble understanding the attitude of "gamesmen," and of the attitude I can only describe as "I'm out to win!"

During my entire competition career, during which I produced only modest results, I entered into matches with the one express purpose of learning something in the process. IPSC/SWPL made this not only possible, but even simple, back in those days.
When our group left IPSC because it had become a game, and nothing like "practical," we decided that our competitions would be invariably shot using only either real field equipment or real street-concealment rigs. Gaming was arbitrarily forbidden, and "gamesmanship" was actually punished.
I think that we all experienced a collective sigh of relief. Reality, and the learning that attended it, set in with a vengence. Every match became a useful learning experience. We all found that in a learning competition, the only person against whom you were competing was yourself: Did you do better this time, than you did last time?
When IDPA started up, we watched with great interest: Would it stay in the real world, or would it, too, become a game? Would people join to learn, or to win?
Very soon, it, too, became a game. "Do the right thing" rules died off. Tweaking the equipment became as important as it had in IPSC. Competitors wore different rigs, and carried different guns, in competition than they did on the street.

Thus, I warn against using one set of equipment for competition, and another for real life, because that is not conducive to learning. It is conducive only to winning. But the two are mutually exclusive.

Taurian, I apologize for using your innocent comment as the reason for a diatribe. It merely set off my rant, and nothing I've written here was aimed specifically at you.
But my advice remains the same: Compete with whatever equipment you normally use. Thus, you will learn much that is useful.
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

Taurian

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Re: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 05:45:27 PM »
I agree with you Steve; one must train with what one carries and wears. As Spock would say, "It is only logical."
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

Charles1951

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Re: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2013, 06:26:46 PM »
Steve,

I agree with you to a degree and many that participate in IDPA where I shoot also agree. Some are more interested in winning but most want to have fun first and learn something second.

It is everybody's own business to look after their own motives. For me, I don't care at all about winning but it is more fun for me if try to match my gear to what seems to be accepted best by others that participate and yet is very close to my EDC gear. My IDPA pistol is a Walther PPQ which has virtually the same manual of arms as my PPS except for magazine capacity. The PPS is legal for IDPA but I would have to perform reloads at different times than others shooting in the match and I personally chose to make my gun more closely match what others use; at least for now. Later, I can change that if I want. Those who shoot 1911 style are limited to the same capacity as I would have for the PPS if I use 8 round magazines so I may try that later.

For my holster, there are safety considerations. Serpa holsters are frowned upon because someone in our group shot himself in the leg while using one at a match. Ideally, for IDPA the holster should be squarely on the hip. Inside the waistband is exceptable but that becomes difficult while at the same time following other rules perfectly. I elect to follow safety rules before practical "rules" while competing but that's my choice.

Bottom line it is possible to compete in IDPA with your exact EDC. I could if I wanted to. I feel like I'm having more fun tweaking my gear and learning the pros and cons of different setups. I'm actually thinking that maybe by this time next year I may find that I can carry my PPQ more often. I really shoot well with it and that is a good motivation to switch. I understand your misgivings about this kind of competition and respect your opinion. Will it change my mind about my participation? Sorry, no way!! I have way too much fun to stop as long as I can complete a day's competition safely I will be there. (And I can afford it.) There is one guy that goes regularly who is 72 and has early Parkinson's disease. He is an inspiration to me.
Charles

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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson

Taurian

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Re: Zero Concealment Systems holsters?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2013, 05:02:50 PM »
I fully understand your viewpoint, Charles. When I was competing in LE matches we, of course, had to use our duty gear. Obviously, there was a hidden agenda. Were there better and faster rigs for competition? Of course there was and probably quite a few of us would have liked to have used them to become, well, more competitive. Each of us competitors had different holsters depending on what we were competing with (revolver or pistol). Some had to use department-issue holsters while us lucky ones purchased our own holsters for duty wear. Most, like myself, had a security holster that took a little more effort to become comfortable with during competition while understanding the need to become intimately familiar with it should we need to release our "personal defensive firearms" from its grasp during a high-stress encounter against bad people with guns while preventing a Barney Fife "Fumble" moment.

We did have some officers quit competing because they could not overcome the obstacles of a security holster in order to become more competitive. They did go on to different types of competition where they could use the latest and greatest speed draw holsters and race guns. They didn't do all that well in that competition either so a debate about holsters for competition was really moot at that point.

That is the beauty of having the freedom to pursue pistol perfection; we can experiment and find what really works for us as an individual. As long as we don't shoot ourselves in the foot (or other body parts) in the process of experimentation, we come out for the better.

Enjoy the competition!
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.