Author Topic: Ignore the A-Zone  (Read 2731 times)

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CR Williams

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Ignore the A-Zone
« on: February 01, 2013, 05:49:49 AM »
The A zone on an IDPA target, if it were placed at the height of an average man, is lower than you should be aiming. In fact, traditional COM is a bit lower than you should be training to aim. The best zone is a triangle, the base running in a line from nipple to nipple, the apex/point of the triangle running to the base or hollow of the throat. There is more there that will stop the attack faster than shots in center of traditional COM area.

Training for the head shot, your center point of aim should be at the base of the nose. There is an inverted triangle for the head for best effect--line is across the eyebrows to the outer edge of the eyeball, point of triangle no farther than the base of the chin.

Connect these triangles with a column about 1.5 inches wide down the center of the throat to get the area of best and fastest effect on the attacker.

I'll get a picture up in a day or two to show you better.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 10:23:08 AM by CR Williams »
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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commonground

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2013, 08:21:56 AM »
Thanks CR  Good information
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Robert Harvey

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2013, 12:45:51 PM »
The A zone on an IDPA target, if it were placed at the height of an average man, is lower than you should be aiming. In fact, traditional COM is a bit lower than you should be training to aim. The best zone is a triangle, the base running in a line from nipple to nipple, the apex/point of the triangle running to the base or hollow of the throat. There is more there that will stop the attack faster than shots in center of traditional COM area.

Training for the head shot, your center point of aim should be at the base of the nose. There is an inverted triangle for the head for best effect--line is across the eyebrows to the outer edge of the eyeball, point of triangle no farther than the base of the chin.

Connect these triangles with a column about 1.5 inches wide down the center of the throat to get the area of best and fastest effect on the attacker.

I'll get a picture up in a day or two to show you better.
How is this one?
I took a target cleaned all the bullet holes off of it, modified it.
then added the triangles with the channel.
is it even close?
thanks
Robert[attach=1]
Time will tell.

commonground

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2013, 01:45:59 PM »
How is this one?  I took a target cleaned all the bullet holes off of it, modified it, then added the triangles with the channel.  is it even close?
Robert

Looks good to me Robert.  From the description CR gave you got it close.  It sure makes sense.  There's lots of important pieces parts in those triangles and the path between.  I will have to get some targets and make some. 
“do not go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things at stupid times.” - Gabe Suarez

pop pop

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 05:00:21 AM »
Most people just don't know how hard it really is to incopassitate an agressive foe. It just is not like John Wayne did it in the movies. CR has given excellent advice here, but hard to do when stressed. Front Sight brothers, front sight if you have the time. No spray and pray if possible. That is also easy to sit here and type!!!!!!!!!!

commonground

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 07:57:57 AM »
Some time back our friend Shawn Hoyle introduced us to Inovative Tactical Concepts (ITC).  I watched some of the videos on the site and was impressed with the factual data in them derived from FBI stats.  The shot placement videos were of particular interest to me.  I have included a link if you are interested in viewing them.  Thanks Shawn and CR for helping us understand some important fundamentals.

http://www.right2defend.com/shot-placement-myths/
“do not go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things at stupid times.” - Gabe Suarez

CR Williams

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 10:26:54 AM »
How is this one?
I took a target cleaned all the bullet holes off of it, modified it.
then added the triangles with the channel.
is it even close?
thanks
Robert[attach=1]

The only change I would make to be to widen the base of the chest triangle to the outer circle, Robert. That looks on that target to best approximate the nipple to nipple line. Otherwise, that's the idea.

I have attached pictures with a couple of alternatives to set up an IDPA target as I suggest for training. The outer edges define the area of best effect as I currently understand it. A dot in the center of each triangle or circle can be added so as to facilitate your focus. Aim small, miss small.
Shikan haramitsu dai ko myo.

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Robert Harvey

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 07:08:39 PM »
I am over looking your attachments CR
Time will tell.

Bill MO

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2013, 04:48:14 AM »
Robert they should be showing up in the bottom of CRs first post.
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pop pop

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 01:47:58 PM »
CR, you are 100% correct in your kill zone reccomendations. Everything has a kill zone if you stop and think about it. I'll give you a case-in-point. I have been forced to dispatch a bunch of destructive squirrls lately. Even as small as they are you can't just shoot them anywhere and get an instant kill with a rifle. You simply put the 22LR bullet in the area around and behind the front legs broadside, or in the head. If you gut shoot them they just run off. Deer have kill zones that every deer hunter knows, and I can go on and on.

No arguments from me pal.  I am glad someone finally put this in print for all to understand. Good training drill CR.

1911 guy

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 09:14:07 PM »
Agreed that the COM thing is sometimes over-rated.  If the opponent offers a full on open shot, the fastest way to stop them is following CR's advice given here.

COM comes into its own when presented with a less than optimal shot.  Then you go with COM of the visible (or shootable through concealment) target.  For example, if all I see is a butt cheek sticking out from behind a Yugo, I'm shooting the center of that butt cheek.
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Bill MO

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 04:30:29 AM »
I am getting to where I am starting to change my mind on what should be the first area to target. CR, Matt's advice of putting the first ones in the belly is starting to make sense to me.

Most times you will be behind and pushed for time so you will be rushing that first shot or burst. If you are off with your aim it will most times be high, aiming for the belly still gives you all the chest to hit if so.

Working the zipper first ones in belly then move up to upper chest and head is making sense in my eyes. For the area of the kill I do agree with your area of zoning.
"Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

"If you are not training in “the reality of the fight” you are training to a lower standard." Roger Phillips

"It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby." reinman45

CR Williams

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2014, 05:55:07 AM »
I don't disagree so much as quibble a bit with that, Bill. As long as you are making it the starting point of the zipper, that's fine. As the main shot/default target area, I'm not too up on that, Jelly Bryce notwithstanding ("You shoot a man in the nuts, he's gonna leave you alone.")

Two things mitigate against the 'gut shot' to me: One, I'm coming around to the point that most people will, running a gun against a threat, bring it up to eye-level or near it. Looks to be an automatic thing, not truly reflexive but acting like a reflex. Other is, even if the low shot hits the spine, it's not high enough to get the arms and chest out of the picture. If they have a gun, they can still shoot you.

Other than that, going off the half-hip is fine. To take advantage of natural tendencies and get the best chance of stopping the fight, you still have to move up with it.
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Robert Harvey

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Re: Ignore the A-Zone
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2014, 08:26:20 PM »
Stop the threat!!!
Time will tell.