Author Topic: Don't Take Anything For Granted!  (Read 3691 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

oldranger53

  • The Ranger Creed-words to live by
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3739
  • 2/503d INF ABN 173d BDE ABN
    • Temporary website home with basic information.
Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« on: December 11, 2012, 02:36:28 PM »
Perhaps this doesn't need to be said, but if there are doubts, please allow me to fill in some gaps.


In the movies, people get shot ONCE and fall over, never to pose a threat again.
In the real world, that is the exception rather than the rule!


NEVER assume that your adversary is "down for the count" because of one or two gunshot or stab wounds!
The mind/body combination is a wonderful creation and can withstand enormous trauma, and still continue to function.


God forbid, if you are ever in a situation where you need to use deadly force to quell a threat, don't take for granted that what you see in the movies will hold true for your particular situation. 
Make sure, make sure, make sure your threat is neutralized before allowing your guard to lax.  The life you save could well be your own, and/or your loved one's.
Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

Robert Harvey

  • Rharvey
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4980
    • The computer guy
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 02:48:06 PM »
Perhaps this doesn't need to be said, but if there are doubts, please allow me to fill in some gaps.


In the movies, people get shot ONCE and fall over, never to pose a threat again.
In the real world, that is the exception rather than the rule!


NEVER assume that your adversary is "down for the count" because of one or two gunshot or stab wounds!
The mind/body combination is a wonderful creation and can withstand enormous trauma, and still continue to function.


God forbid, if you are ever in a situation where you need to use deadly force to quell a threat, don't take for granted that what you see in the movies will hold true for your particular situation. 
Make sure, make sure, make sure your threat is neutralized before allowing your guard to lax.  The life you save could well be your own, and/or your loved one's.
+1
Time will tell.

commonground

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2441
  • Two Beautiful Girls
  • Location: South Central Pennsylvania
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 03:20:06 PM »
+1  oldranger 53.    If any of you are hunters and have shot a deer or other animal with a fatal shot only to have it runs a hundred yards before dropping, know that one shot stops are not guaranteed.  Brian LaMaster of ITC states that FBI statistics show that the chances of hitting your target when in a high stress situation are only 20% and if you do not hit the brain or the upper spinal column instant stops are not likely.  The movies have done us all an injustice showing one shot stops but, that's show biz.
“do not go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things at stupid times.” - Gabe Suarez

SARGeek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1622
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2012, 09:06:20 AM »
Exactly. Don't stop until they are stopped and even then keep your guard up.

If an animal can take a rifle round, much more powerful than what we carry in our defensive pistols, and keep going that far, then you would be a fool to count on a pistol stopping with one or two hits.
SARGeek

Dinky Dau Don

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Every Day On Top Of The Dirt, Is A Great Day!
    • Don's Website
  • Location: Wherever my hat is hanging today!
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2012, 10:38:38 AM »
+ 1 Old Ranger

Keep firing until the threat is neutralized...if he's dead, he's neutralized!
I Carry A .45 Because Shooting Twice Is Just Silly!
US ARMY - '56 to '65 - SFC
Happiness Is Having Been An Airborne Ranger and Still Being Alive To Brag About It![

commonground

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2441
  • Two Beautiful Girls
  • Location: South Central Pennsylvania
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2012, 11:31:22 AM »
Question: "Why did you shoot him ten times?
Answer: "Because the gun only holds ten rounds".   ???
“do not go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things at stupid times.” - Gabe Suarez

Bill MO

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 424
  • Location: Northeast MO
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2012, 01:18:08 PM »
So some questions. Situation is more than one BG, you have shot first BG to the ground, to continue fight you must walk (run) past the BG on the ground. Do you give your back to a down BG? Is there certain things you do before you walk past BG? Or do you just disengage? What if you can disengage because of danger to other family members?

I know my answers but do you? These are things one needs to think about and have answered before the need is upon you.
"Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

"If you are not training in “the reality of the fight” you are training to a lower standard." Roger Phillips

"It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby." reinman45

oldranger53

  • The Ranger Creed-words to live by
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3739
  • 2/503d INF ABN 173d BDE ABN
    • Temporary website home with basic information.
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2012, 02:03:30 PM »
So some questions. Situation is more than one BG, you have shot first BG to the ground, to continue fight you must walk (run) past the BG on the ground. Do you give your back to a down BG? Is there certain things you do before you walk past BG? Or do you just disengage? What if you can disengage because of danger to other family members?

I know my answers but do you? These are things one needs to think about and have answered before the need is upon you.


Indeed you bring up a viable and good point.
From an initial response position, I'll say this and perhaps have more thoughts as I ponder the situation quoted above:
Personally, I will always engage the most pressing issues first, and "mop up" the loose ends AFTER the biggest threats are quelled.  I cannot see myself (or any reasonable person) ignoring, even for a split second, a more active threat in order to pay attention to a less active threat.
I guess it would matter, say for instance, if I KNEW that the down BG had 50lbs of C4 strapped to his chest and a dead-man trigger for the whole shebang (pun intended).  But that also is a hypothetical situation.
Bullets travel pretty fast.
At first response, I'll say to deal with the MOST ACTIVE threats first, then, "mop up" what's left.


These are initial opinions, and may change as the thought processes continue.
Thanks for bringing this up!  It is a real issue, but frankly not one I think about much.
It pays to THINK!
Right, Dinky Dau Don?


I still remember, in Camp Frank D. Merrill, doing push-ups in the frozen mud, strapped to a litter, while chanting "T-H-I-N-K", "T-H-I-N-K"!
Oh, those were the days! I get a chill just thinking about it!
Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

SARGeek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1622
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2012, 02:14:05 PM »
Good point Bill MO. As I mentioned in another thread about shooting to kill vs. shooting to stop. If I have family with me I am probably at my most dangerous as I simply cannot afford to give my back to someone who may "re-animate" and become a threat again. There are arguments in favor of "boarding house rules" (Everyone gets "firsts" before going back to deliver "seconds" or more) and arguments about finishing one threat before starting to address another. My view is that I will have to decide that at the time but I cannot leave a BG behind me in condition to get me while dealing with his friends. It might very well serve a useful purpose in the disruption of the BG's plan (or even just their OODA loop) to address them all once (burst fire) before returning to any that are still moving my way.

Either way, I don't count them out unless I'm fairly sure they aren't going to move, let alone fight.
SARGeek

crzyjarmans

  • Fewer words carry a great weight than someone who never stops talking
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1930
  • Location: Las Vegas,NV
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2013, 08:56:36 AM »
One thing I'd like to add is?, If, lets say, two shots drop your attacker?, Do you drop your guard?, JMHO, No, Do you keep firing your weapon?, JMHO, No, Keep your attention on the threat, until you are totally sure your life is no longer in danger, Remember!, in some states, Maybe all, but at least in my state (Nevada), once the threat is down, the next shot could make it a crime on your part.
Shawn, Stay armed, Stay safe

oldranger53

  • The Ranger Creed-words to live by
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3739
  • 2/503d INF ABN 173d BDE ABN
    • Temporary website home with basic information.
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2013, 01:59:28 PM »
One thing I'd like to add is?, If, lets say, two shots drop your attacker?, Do you drop your guard?, JMHO, No, Do you keep firing your weapon?, JMHO, No, Keep your attention on the threat, until you are totally sure your life is no longer in danger, Remember!, in some states, Maybe all, but at least in my state (Nevada), once the threat is down, the next shot could make it a crime on your part.


Yeah, this is a good point.
Reminds me of the time, in Utah years ago, when a significantly younger man attacked me with hands and feet while I was getting around with a walking cane from having injured my knee on the job a week or so earlier.
I whacked him with my walking cane once.  He did not go down all the way, and started a rebound.  I whacked him again before he could get to me.  That second whack stopped the attack.
Was THAT ok?  No. 
I was arrested and charged with assault.
The DA told my lawyer that if I'd only hit the younger (late 30's) man once, it would have been "self defense", but since I added the second whack, they considered it "assault".
Silly, I know, but that was the climate at the time.
The whole thing went away in court, but not until it cost me around $8,000.00+ in lawyer fees, time off work, etc...
No, I can't say I'd keep shooting after the threat was quelled.
Shucks, I'll think twice if I ever have to whack someone with a stick again - guess I'll have to aim better to make the first whack do the job.
They say I was "off the mark" about a half inch the first time.
Whew.  Gotta be careful out there!  Things just don't make a lot of sense!
Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

pstan13

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 674
  • Location: Wyoming
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2013, 02:40:31 PM »
When firing extra shots to make sure the BG is really neutralized, remember the 2009 story about the Pharmacist in Oklahoma who was videoed taking killing shots on a teenage robber. He was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. "A prosecutor, however, said that after Ersland shot Antwun Parker in the head, knocking the 16-year-old to the ground, Ersland made himself "judge, jury, executioner" by getting a second handgun and shooting the boy five times in the abdomen." [Maybe if he had used the same gun, it wouldn't have been so blatant]

Surveillance Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBBlEhmWNQ

Rest of Story: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/05/26/pharmacist-shooting-oklahoma.html
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes."
-- Thomas Jefferson

oldranger53

  • The Ranger Creed-words to live by
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3739
  • 2/503d INF ABN 173d BDE ABN
    • Temporary website home with basic information.
Re: Don't Take Anything For Granted!
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 02:29:19 PM »
Something else recently comes to mind about not taking anything "for granted."

We called it "concealed" because for the most part, we keep our weapons out of the awareness of other people around us.
It is sometimes easy to become complacent, or lax, in the efforts we take to keep our weapons concealed.
Even around people who know that I carry, I always try to keep all visual indicators from announcing the presence of hardware under my clothes.  I even tell my wife that if I am ever "letting it all hang out", to take me to the side and quietly warn me so I can fix the issue BEFORE someone of lesser knowledge and understanding (not to mention political views) sees it and has a tizzy-fit and starts ranting about the evils of this and that, and on and on...(anyone hear "911?").

Summary:  Don't take for granted that if you are in a generally "gun friendly" environment that everyone in that environment will be "gun friendly", and to maintain strict concealment protocols as long as you are actually carrying.  You'll be glad you did, if you do.  It's good practice.
Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.