Author Topic: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.  (Read 1778 times)

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DangeRuss

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commonground

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 05:44:42 AM »
The guy obviously has problems and that is very sad but, the outcome was good and the carrying of the concealed weapon made the difference.   ;D

Coastie

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 06:22:09 AM »
If he hadn't had the weapon (CCW) then it would have been news on just another church shooting...either way it makes the media, who is probably anti-gun, but they sell newspapers and that's what news is all about...

Good catch Russ! 

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2012, 03:54:50 PM »
This guy gets a "D-" for common sense, and an "F" for application.
Even the stupidest of people, emotionally distraught or not, know better than to do what he did.
It's like he WANTED to be caught and put away.
Sheesh.
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Shawn Hoyle

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2012, 06:11:34 PM »

Wow! Messed up people just don't think about how they effect other people's lives. Glad no one was hurt.


I'm going to use this incident to help further my efforts to be allowed to carry at my church.


Buckeye Firearms Association used this incident and added some other information to help my cause.


http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8290
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Coastie

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2012, 08:16:35 AM »
If I were you I'd be using all the news that covers church shootings from that incident in Colo., to today.  You need to show them that such things happen at any time...any and every where.

Also here's a link which may be of use:

http://churchsecuritymember.com/church-securitythe-origins-of-christian-pacifism-by-gabe-suarez/

Shawn Hoyle

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2012, 07:42:45 PM »
Thank you Michael. I will add that to the others. I have put together a package of information and articles like that one that would convince any gun hater to start carrying. Well, I know it's not THAT easy, but I'm going for it. I appreciate all your help and everyone else who has pointed me in the right direction.
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pop pop

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2012, 08:39:30 AM »
You need to be careful not to have too much background material. Most church leaders have jobs and don't have a lot of time to read a large amount of material. It will end up in file 13, if too much material is presented. Your presentation will go a long way in what their descision will be. You are facing a very up hill battle. Most likely it will come slowly with tiny steps. Sad to say, but some will have their mind made up before you even present your proposal.

When I first was allowed permission to form our Safety Team they were not willing to go anywhere near armed people in the building. Still aren't, but in my state you don't need permission to church carry and I know some that do. Our team is unarmed, by leaders determination. Last week we had vandilizam on our building. Someone shot out a window in one of our back entrance doors, with a pellet gun. I had previously asked for a camera security system, but they would not spend the money.

I submitted another request this week and they are really considering following the Outreach Police Officers advice, and may allow us to seek out what it would cost the church. I plan to folllow up my request in about 4 weeks. These survalence systems (good ones) are not cheap and complicated to keep operational. We have a large building.

Events, in the past 3 years at my church, have brought most of our leaders around to the realization what I have been preaching is a fact that must be dealt with. With every communication, I have with them, I include events that have happened, in our community, where evil has been accomplished against, and inside other churches. I have attempted to do continueing education upon our leaders, and the recent event of vandilizam has been another spoke in that large wheel that must be completed in order to make them act, and spend much needed funds.

Just know it is going to go slow and keep your presentation short, but to the point. Sheep abound and 2/3, or more, of your leaders will wear this lable. Most are in total denial and some just refuse to believe evil people exist. Others have the opinions that all evil people can just be reasoned with. A few others just think God will take care of them. Like I said, "An up hill battle," in my experiance.   

Coastie

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2012, 08:46:10 AM »
Good luck with your attempts Pop pop, and GD!

I was lucky, my brother in law is the pastor and he also carries...as do numerous folks...

Shawn Hoyle

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2012, 07:09:14 PM »
Hey, Thanks Pop Pop.


Actually, I'm already past the 'denial stage' with our administrator (who is also one of eight elders). He has told me that until he gets the others involved to look into this more, the answer would be 'no', but he would consider it again as he obtains more information. He has thanked me many times for bringing the safety issues to light and has said that he can tell that I was called into the ministry of a watchdog. Now, if he can see it after only knowing me for six months, I must be living right. He has also said that he is interested in what I had to say and that he will look at the information I gave him.


I also have the support of another church member and fellow CCer who has been there longer than me. I'm encouraged by the results of my efforts, so far, and I give God the glory for allowing me to take on such an important task at such a large church. It's a little intimidating, but exciting at the same time.
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Coastie

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2012, 07:18:28 PM »
Maybe you should also invite them to the range...that has been known to work at times...a little shooting say from a .22 to your carry caliber, along with strict range safety might help them see the light that firearms aren't bad...and that you're safety conscious...

Shawn Hoyle

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2012, 07:33:01 PM »
Oh yea. I will wait for the right moment, but I would love to offer a range trip.
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oldranger53

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2012, 06:06:53 PM »
You need to be careful not to have too much background material.
<snip>
Just know it is going to go slow and keep your presentation short, but to the point. Sheep abound and 2/3, or more, of your leaders will wear this lable. Most are in total denial and some just refuse to believe evil people exist. Others have the opinions that all evil people can just be reasoned with. A few others just think God will take care of them. Like I said, "An up hill battle," in my experiance.


That part about "2/3, or more, of your leaders will wear this lable. etc..." is right on.
It's been a long time since wife and I were in a church body of more than a dozen or so people.  Can't say that I really miss the larger congregations, although sometimes I wish more people were interested in attending church in general.
Anyway, neither of us would even think about asking permission of those holding any kind of "authority" within the structure of the church.  And that, because of the opening quotes in this reply.
Even people closest to us, family members who also own firearms, hunt, and shoot for fun, are not approachable in matters concerning security in and around the church body.
We never talk about it to them, but as I've hinted at in previous posts, I know of at least two people in church that would make it very uncomfortable for any BGs trying to bring gloom and doom into a service or other gathering.
Not everyone can make the leap from childhood belief to grown up responsibility.
Many see taking precautions as a lack of faith or belief in God.
I allow them to remain in their cozy little worlds with the warm and fuzzy illusion of "safety" because disturbing them causes undue irritations and draws unwanted attention.


Just rambling.
Today is Sunday, so it's fresh in mind.

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

Coastie

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Re: SC. churchgoer with ccw saves church from guy with a shotgun.
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2012, 07:47:43 PM »
We also have a small congregation, but, like you I like small ones over large ones.  There's a couple friends I have who would also step in should the need be there, and they have.  When a couple ex-members decided to visit the church when our deacons and pastor were gone one Sunday.  These two ex-es came in and tried to turn members away from the church because they were used to controlling others and wanted to control these members. , to get them to leave, as they had done other members.  So a group of us got around the two men and their wives and escorted them out.