Author Topic: Florida  (Read 1361 times)

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M1911A1

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Florida
« on: February 15, 2018, 07:06:10 PM »
A favorite cousin, herself one of the parents of a young-adult son and a 'teenage daughter, has just written to me (her go-to "gun guy") as follows:

"...Of course, our thoughts have also turned to you in light of yet another shooting. Perhaps you can explain why AR-15 military-grade weaponry is permitted and available? While I am not a hunter, I certainly support my friends who own hunting rifles. I’m just having a hard time understanding this dimension of [it all]. Hoping you can help me wrap my head around this..."

So I replied, in part:

Dear [cousin];

First of all, “military-grade” weaponry is not [normally] available to the law-abiding citizen.
Only those who operate outside of the law have access to stolen (from the military) military-grade equipment.
Responsible, law-abiding people [who are not specially licensed] are limited to rifles and pistols which fire only one shot at a time, even if they reload the following shot on their own (“semi-automatic”). Military stuff shoots continually, as long as the user keeps its trigger depressed.
Non-military guns may be military-looking, but that’s just a matter of cosmetics. Mere appearance has absolutely nothing to do with function.

But that’s not really the issue here. The real issue is discipline and responsibility.
The Florida murderer was still a minor, although permitted by law to purchase a rifle and its ammunition. Where had his parents been, while he was growing up with "anger issues” (as several of his classmates observed)? Where were they when he brought his rifle home? Why had they not exercised some amount of control, teaching him right from wrong and correcting him when he headed in the wrong direction? Why hadn’t they instilled some amount of self-control in him, during his formative years?

You are one of the parents of two young people. Would [your son] do something like this? Would [your daughter]?
We both know that they wouldn’t. So, why wouldn’t they? How do they differ from the 19-year-old killer in Florida?
If you gave [your son] a rifle, what would he do with it? Why wouldn’t he misuse it? Why wouldn’t he kill the people he doesn’t like?

[My daughter] was taught about guns, and how to shoot. She grew up in a home in which there was always at least one fully-loaded pistol at hand.
Why did [she] never access that loaded pistol? Why didn’t she take it to school, and do away with the people she didn’t like?
How does [she] differ from the Florida killer?

You have to remember that the term “gun violence” is composed of two separate concepts.
“Gun” is merely an adjective, which modifies “violence.” The gun is only a tool in the hands of a violent person, and that person would be violent even without the gun.
Further, an uncontrolledly violent person without a gun might accomplish even greater mayhem. Think of Timothy McVey, who destroyed more than 100 people with a bomb made of readily-available, uncontrollable and unrestrictable materials.

Also think of the very different outcome possible, if some qualified teachers and administrators in that Florida school had been armed.
But we “protect” our children by declaring that schools are “gun-free zones.” Did the Florida killer respect that “gun free” designation? Or did it disarm the very people upon whom the children depended for their safety and well-being? (See also the Connecticut shooting of a few years ago.)

By and large, only the uncontrollably violent and the asocial people among us misuse weaponry, which, by the way, includes not only guns, but also knives, baseball bats, and even rocks.
We have now gone through three generations, at least, of people, each of whom has been taught that he (or she) is the most important person on earth, rather than that everybody else is important too, or even, in a sense, more important. These people have never been taught personal responsibility and self-control, and, as a result, many of them are uncontrollably violent and a few of them are clinically asocial.
I suggest that it will take at least three more generations to work our society out of this mess, and yet we have not even begun to try to address the problem.
Instead, we keep focussing on the tool, and, by doing so, remain blind to the person wielding it.

So my point is that the tool used is not at issue. It is the mindset of the tool user that is the problem.
Deny the use of one particular tool, and the malevolent will merely find another tool: Say, for instance, a truck driven into a mass of revelers. That’s what happens in countries in which guns are not quite so readily available.
Can you explain to me why gun violence is worse than, or even different from, truck violence? Or fertilizer-bomb violence?

You can’t.

Love,

Steve
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Taurian

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Re: Florida
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2018, 10:03:01 AM »
Excellent response!

This would also be a good letter to send to local newspapers (not that they would print it), but at least you would have your say.

I foresee an attempt by the anti-gunners to change the law for purchasing a rifle from 18-years old to 21-years old, as is true with handguns.  It would not change anything, but it would sure make people feel like they are doing something positive instead of being helpless. Oh, what can we do, what can we do?

Firearm Prohibition? That did not work with alcohol so what makes one think that it would work for firearms.

The answer is not with the device, it is with demind.

I hope that your response was received well by the recipient.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

NorCalChuck

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Re: Florida
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2018, 10:31:47 AM »
As the saying at Front Sight says, "You are the weapon, the gun is a tool!"
When we learn that, and teach that, then we can begin to perhaps solve of this problem.
Until then this crazyness will continue.
"We will have a good government as long as those that govern are effected by those laws that they pass. When those that are passing the laws are no longer effected by those laws then they will no longer pass good laws."

M1911A1

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Re: Florida
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2018, 10:34:33 AM »
...This would also be a good letter to send to local newspapers (not that they would print it), but at least you would have your say...

It has been submitted.
I am awaiting their decision.
Steve,
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Taurian

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Re: Florida
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2018, 11:17:25 AM »
Hopefully, they won't be as close-minded as most.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

M1911A1

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Re: Florida
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2018, 02:32:32 PM »
One of our county's media outlets has accepted it, and has published it.
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NorCalChuck

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Re: Florida
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2018, 03:07:55 PM »
Congratulation!!! . . . . Please keep us posted on any reactions, pro and con.
"We will have a good government as long as those that govern are effected by those laws that they pass. When those that are passing the laws are no longer effected by those laws then they will no longer pass good laws."

M1911A1

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Re: Florida
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2018, 10:50:39 PM »
Congratulation!!! . . . . Please keep us posted on any reactions, pro and con.

So far, three responses.
All of them are from the sheep.
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Re: Florida
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2018, 12:46:05 PM »
Great response Steve.

M1911A1

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Re: Florida
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 02:16:30 PM »
Steve,
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M1911A1

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Re: Florida
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2018, 10:26:02 PM »
...Please keep us posted on any reactions, pro and con.

So far, 14 responses: Eight are from kneejerk sheeple*, one is from a pacifist who understands my point, and four agree with me outright. One response argues with another response.

*"Guns are b-a-a-a-d!"

You may be able to read the responses at: https://orcasissues.com/letter-editor-worst-kind-violence/
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flyover

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Re: Florida
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2018, 08:20:38 AM »
Very well done.

Taurian

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Re: Florida
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 10:31:13 AM »
Some interesting comments regarding your letter, Steve. You seem to have ruffled some feathers in your island community. Good for you!
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

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Re: Florida
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2018, 09:40:20 AM »
Read all the comments Steve. Interesting to say the least.

Taurian

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Re: Florida
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2018, 11:35:53 AM »
So, how many people are killed because of drugs (illegal or otherwise)? How many from vehicle accidents (or  otherwise), medical malpractice, and let's not forget about abortions and political ambitions, yada, yada, yada.

Here's a little tidbit for ya.  We all know, here on the Forum, that there are firearms on Orcas Island, and I am sure that there are probably firearms on the other islands as well.

Read through the link. Then, please tell me what rates higher - 'incidents involving a motor vehicle' or 'incidents involving a firearm.'  In fact, on a scale of 1 to 10, I would rate incidents involving a motor vehicle a 10. Incidents involving firearms would not even register on the scale.

http://sanjuanislander.com/news-articles/law-enforcement/sheriff-s-log/26286/sheriff-s-log-dec-20-26-armed-standoff-loose-cow-email-threat.

Blaming firearms, since we have 'obviously violent guns' is akin to blaming the sidewalk that killed the person who just jumped 5 stories to his death. 

I have more, but must get back to work.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

Taurian

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Re: Florida
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 11:44:43 AM »
By the way; an interesting article to read:

The History Of Mass Shootings That Needs To Be Heard Before People Demand More Gun Control @ https://freedomoutpost.com/history-mass-shootings-needs-heard-people-demand-gun-control/

Also notable was one comment from a reader:

In 1865 a Democrat shot and killed Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States.
In 1881 a left wing radical Democrat shot James Garfield, President of the United States who later died from the wound.
In 1963 a radical left wing socialist shot and killed John F. Kennedy, President of the United States.
In 1975 a left wing radical Democrat fired shots at Gerald Ford, President of the United States.
In 1983 a registered Democrat shot and wounded Ronald Reagan, President of the United States. I
In 1984 James Hubert, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 22 people in a McDonalds restaurant.
In 1986 Patrick Sherrill, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 15 people in an Oklahoma post office. In 1990 James Pough, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 10 people at a GMAC office.
In 1991 George Hennard, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 23 people in a Luby’s cafeteria.
In 1995 James Daniel Simpson, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 5 coworkers in a Texas laboratory.
In 1999 Larry Asbrook, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 8 people at a church service.
In 2001 a left wing radical Democrat fired shots at the White House in a failed attempt to kill George W. Bush, President of the US.
In 2003 Douglas Williams, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 7 people at a Lockheed Martin plant.
In 2007 a registered Democrat named Seung – Hui Cho, shot and killed 32 people in Virginia Tech.
In 2009, a left wing radical Islamic sympathizer Major Nidal Hasan fatally shot 13 people and injured more than 30 others on Fort Hood, near Killeen, Texas. The shooting produced more casualties than any other on an American military base.
In 2010 a mentally ill registered Democrat named Jared Lee Loughner, shot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in the head thus wounding her for life.
In 2011 a registered Democrat named James Holmes, went into a movie theater and shot and killed 12 people.
In 2012 Andrew Engeldinger, a disgruntled Democrat, shot and killed 7 people in Minneapolis.
In 2013 a registered Democrat named Adam Lanza, shot and killed 26 people in a school.
In Sept 2013, an angry Democrat shot 12 at a Navy ship yard.
In 2016 a registered Muslim Democrat murdered 49 people in an Orlando night club.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

NorCalChuck

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Re: Florida
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 05:25:08 PM »
Good Golly Miss Molly . . . . Watch out for those Democrats they are crazy!
"We will have a good government as long as those that govern are effected by those laws that they pass. When those that are passing the laws are no longer effected by those laws then they will no longer pass good laws."

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Re: Florida
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2018, 07:53:16 AM »
A bit off topic, and, I realize I'm opening myself up to flame attacks, but, can someone tell me WHY these single-shooter events require a hundred LEO's with automatic weapons, armored vehicles, and air support?

Where's "Martin Riggs" when we need him?

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Re: Florida
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2018, 12:29:46 PM »
It's probably easier to find that single shooter quickly, and trap him immediately, if you have lots of people looking for him separately, all at the same time.
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M1911A1

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Re: Florida
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2018, 08:06:46 PM »
Here's an essay that's well worth your time to read.
It's a really, really good suggestion about putting an end to the "nutcase" violence we've been seeing.

Click on: https://mystudentapt.com/2015/10/06/theres-a-way-to-stop-mass-shootings-and-you-wont-like-it/
Steve,
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Re: Florida
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2018, 04:53:17 AM »
Have you noticed how "In Your Face" those young students are when being interview on TV? They are to the point of being belligerent, in their mannerisms and speech, and outright demanding. These kids are getting now where with their attitudes.

We had 2 kid, with autism, in our church congregation. One left to move to Mississippi. Guys, they are very hard to have conversation with, in fact almost impossible to hold a conversation with. One lived down the road from us and I even took him to church services on several occasions. Yo could speak to him and he would answer, but have no rebuttle in any form. I made it a point to speak to him, but don't know how much good it ever did.

He think and calls himself Jedi, something or another, and speak fluent Spanish. His parents said the shrnk said to let him do it, so he has assumed that name totally. It is very hard situation with them in dealing with them.

Some reports say Cruz has autism, among other mental problems.

One can assume the with the attitude you see displayed in those interviews, those kids, in that school, are not going to make any effort to include anyone, with problems, into their inner circles. Just watch those interviews and see for yourself. They are totally "In Your Face" communicators. It is hard to see how they are going to get anywhere with that type of attitude.

Taurian

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Re: Florida
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2018, 01:01:41 PM »
Good article, Steve. I have bookmarked it for later reading; I want to go through the 1178 comments that were posted.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

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Re: Florida
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2018, 01:54:44 PM »
Well I read it and it is so right on.
This should be required reading for everyone, as the title says:
There’s a Way to Stop Mass Shootings, and You Won’t Like It.
"We will have a good government as long as those that govern are effected by those laws that they pass. When those that are passing the laws are no longer effected by those laws then they will no longer pass good laws."

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Re: Florida
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2018, 06:28:47 PM »
 This was given a brief half-second on the evening "news":

So now it turns out that there was an armed deputy sheriff at the school as the killer began to shoot.

But that deputy sheriff did nothing to stop the killer. He stayed outside and did nothing!


And when he learned that he was to be disciplined for not having “moved toward the sound of the guns,” he resigned.

How do we stop school shootings? We do something.
Steve,
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M1911A1

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Re: Florida
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2018, 06:46:44 PM »
And now the Sheriff of the county in which the Florida killings took place is going to station an armed deputy in every school in the county.
But why wasn't this done before the shootings ever got started? Because it was deemed to be too expensive, and a waste of police resources.
So now, after the massacre had been accomplished, the Sheriff wants to "lock the stable door after the horse has already been stolen."

Good thinking, Sheriff.

(He's also against arming the teachers.)
Steve,
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Taurian

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Re: Florida
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2018, 05:03:42 AM »
I am sure that the NRA is to blamed for that decision. After all, they are the cause for all of the society's ills.

But, as I have heard said; "You can take the gun out of a man’s hand, but you cannot take the hate from his heart."

See something, say something worked - do something did not.

And, when are the elections for Sheriff? He is obviously catering to the sentiment so as to get re-elected.

We don't need better gun laws.  We need better adults and more competent authorities (https://www.themaven.net/theresurgent/erick-erickson/the-adults-failed-us-government-failed-us-gun-laws-did-not-fail-us-5KaGTDaIuku3g-45xcC6qQ?mc_cid=ebc068b1d5&mc_eid=534f4db56e&full=1).
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 10:29:34 AM by Taurian »
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

M1911A1

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Re: Florida
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2018, 10:33:16 AM »
...We don't need better gun laws.  We need better adults and more competent authorities...

Yup!
Steve,
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Re: Florida
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2018, 02:05:26 PM »
Here's an interesting point of view.
It's a press release from a peer-reviewed, professional journal.
The subject is that we encourage nut cases by making a big deal out of their insane behavior. The press release calls it "Media Contagion."

Click on: http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-contagion.aspx
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Re: Florida
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2018, 04:12:54 PM »
https://www.wptv.com/news/national/deputy-at-florida-high-school-where-17-were-killed-never-went-in-resigns


"Scott Peterson"

 I will remember this guy's name as long as I live.
I'm sure many others will as well.

I don't know the "why" , but the "what" is so overwhelming that the "why" won't really matter as history recalls him.

This is one of those things in life that I wish I didn't know about.

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Re: Florida
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2018, 07:21:47 AM »
Now, it seems, that there was not just one BSO deputy unwilling to engage (let's assume that he was waiting for BU just to give him some credit), but four!!!

One source: https://www.redstate.com/arbogast/2018/02/24/democrat-sheriff-deputies-allowed-school-shooting-to-happen-praised-by-media/?utm_source=rsmorningbriefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 08:40:12 AM by Taurian »
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

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Re: Florida
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2018, 08:12:08 AM »
Here's an essay that's well worth your time to read.
It's a really, really good suggestion about putting an end to the "nutcase" violence we've been seeing.

Click on: https://mystudentapt.com/2015/10/06/theres-a-way-to-stop-mass-shootings-and-you-wont-like-it/

Good article, very interesting comments.

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Re: Florida
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2018, 08:26:59 AM »
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

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Re: Florida
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2018, 01:52:56 AM »
Scarey. I bet she peed her pants.  ::)

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Re: Florida
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2018, 02:45:36 PM »
Trump has been know to give them enough line to get hung by later. We'll see.
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Re: Florida
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2018, 05:19:00 AM »
It was reported that Trump started back-tracking after meeting with the NRA. With that said, there will, undoubtedly be, some changes.

The moving of the age to 21 in order to purchase a firearm will bring on problems, even though it will not hinder a bad-guy from obtaining a firearm in one way or another.

A vehicle is useless without a driver and fuel. A firearm is useless without an operator and fuel. Remove any part of the triangle to render the other parts useless.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.