Author Topic: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP  (Read 771 times)

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Taurian

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9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« on: January 19, 2018, 08:53:44 AM »
I normally carry Gold Dot 124-grain JHP ammunition in any 9mm that I carry. However, I have been considering moving to the Hornady 147-grain XTP for defensive carry.

Anyone want to weigh in (no pun intended) on this move?
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

pop pop

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2018, 10:18:22 AM »
I have not ventured into the newer 147 gr market although it supposed to be better now than it was. Currently I have ordered the Cor Bon DPX all copper. I like them.

Taurian

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2018, 10:52:07 AM »
Well, I don't have a large investment in defensive ammunition for the 9mm. What I do have is mainly in the 124-grain family. Practice ammunition also falls in the 124-grain family.

In the early days of my introduction to the 9mm I kept hearing (or being told) to stay away from the 147-grain ammunition, as it was too slow, did not penetrate, and did not expand as well as the 124-grain fodder.  I pretty much took that advice at face value, not having experience with the 9mm.

However, it seems that the modern-day version of the 147-grain cartridge is much better and the cartridge is in use by numerous LE agencies.  The velocity, while slower than the 124-grain, is still faster than the .45ACP round and (seemingly) seems to be on par with the 230-grain .45ACP round in regard to penetration.

Most of what I am reading about the 147-grain fodder is mainly old news and would like to find (or hear  something more up-to-date regarding this cartridge.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2018, 05:43:32 AM »
What is your thoughts on these brands and bullet weights of ammo?

1. 45 auto Fed HST 230 gr HP LE 26.95 bx of 50

2. 45 auto 185 gr Speer Golden Saber BJHP 50 rd 21.95

3. 9 MM Speer Gold Dot 147 gr GDHP 22.95 50 rd bx

4. 9 MM + P 124 gr Personal Protection GDHP 20 rd 9.95

5. 9 MM Fed HST 147 gr HP LE 19.95 50 rd bx

6. 9 MM Fed HST 124 gr JHP LE 19.95 bx of 50

Also S G Ammo has Federal BPLE 14.95 bx of 50. I don't know about this ammo because it is from the aspect of light bullets traveling very fast. It is 115 gr +P+ ammo. As far as street effectiveness it is in the top, but is very hard on guns because of the increased pressure of the +P+ power level. Don't know how hard it would be on my MP 9 C. Your thoughts?

Taurian, do you have a opinion on any of these? I need 9 MM ammo myself. Like you, I have heard the newer generation of the 147 gr loads do a betteer job.  Not sure any of them are better than the all copper Cor Bon DPX which I am carrying now.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 06:52:42 AM by pop pop »

Taurian

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2018, 09:13:11 AM »
Pop pop, I hate to give you the short answer, but I must.

Buy a box of each, run a few through your particular pistol, and examine the results.

My personal preference is not to run +P ammo. But, that's my personal preference. If I absolutely need to run a hot round, I'll step up to the next caliber. There are a nuber of factors that affect my decision not to carry +P ammunition

I have found, through experimentation, that the Sig Sauer Elite Performance 230-grain JHP has the most accuracy out of my 'Rock' 1911 FS Tactical; whereas, I can't say the same for the same round through my Ruger SR 1911CMD.  I can't lay claim that the round is any more effective on a target, as far as damage, because that is always questionable in my mind. I can say that I prefer the accuracy of the cartridge in this particular firearm over any other cartridge; it strikes the target where I am pointing the pistol.

Gold Dot ammunition is a popular choice and has some good field results. But, again, it comes down to how it performs in your pistol with you shooting it.  If you find that another cartridge performs better in the same pistol, that's the one I would go with. Matching cartridges with firearms is just part and parcel of  determining what firearm/ammunition combination works best.

Another example is that my CZ75B is highly accurate with Gold Dot 124-grain JHP. The Springfield 4.5 in 9mm is not as accurate with that round and is more accurate with Federal Hydra-Shok in the same bullet weight.

If you believe that the Cor Bon DPX cartridge provides excellent accuracy in your gun in your hands, well...

Sorry for the short answer.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2018, 10:14:22 AM »
Thanks Taurian. Short answer is good enough. 

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2018, 12:50:35 PM »
Well, I ordered about 800 rounds of all different flavors of ammo. I need to get the ammo and take my sandbags and see which ammo the MP 2.0 likes. I tell you when you purchase a new gun, that you intend to use, it is a lot of fun finding out all the particulars.

So far I have around 500 rounds through it, mostly practice ammo, and it has been reliable. I have only fired 3 different kinds of ammo so we need to try a few more, for sure what I intend to carry in it. I will most probably have around 1000 rounds through it when I finish. That should give me a good test period.

The trigger sure has a much different feel than my revolvers do. Need to get serious about working it so as to get really failure with it.

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 11:08:35 PM »
I'm coming late to this party, for which I apologize.
But I brought some really good, locally-made cider...

I am a great believer in pushing forth the heaviest bullet that you and your pistol can stand.
Got a 9mm? Use the 147-grain bullet, HP if at all possible.
Got a .38 Special? Use the 158-grain bullet, HP or soft-lead, full-blunt wadcutter.
Got a .45? Use a 230-grain bullet, HP if at all possible.
Got a .380? Well... I keep looking for that mythical 105-grain, HP bullet. Haven't found it yet.

My thoughts are thus:
• I want all of my bullet's energy to be transferred to the, um, object that it hits. If it goes all the way through, it won't do the damage I need it to do. I want my bullet to stop inside it.
• Lighter bullets usually travel fast. Light bullets going fast can just keep on going, all the way through. This has been particularly true of the 9mm round. Useful energy ends up in the nearest wall.
• And then there's recoil. Not quantity, but quality. Heavy, slow-moving bullets (relatively speaking, of course...105 grains isn't truly heavy) deliver recoil that's more like a push, while lighter, faster bullets recoil with a jab. I don't like jabs, and the older I get, the less I like 'em.

The "push," versus the "jab," makes it possible to teach any normal-size 10-year-old to competently and comfortably shoot the .45 ACP M1911 pistol. QED
Steve,
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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2018, 04:22:33 AM »
Well said Steve, thanks.

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2018, 05:34:28 AM »
I tend to be with you Steve, on the heavier bullets, but the Federal BPLE 115 gr is the other extreme, being light bullet traveling very fast. It is a +P+ round and has a stellar track record on the street. I do not like to shoot +P+ in any gun I use so I default/ defere, if you will, to the heavier side of the spectrum, however another exception to this theory is the 357 Mag 125 Gr full power load. In all the Marshall/Sanow work, on stopping power, and the very convincing street evidence, the 357 load is at the top of the game in all their work during that time period. That 357 Mag load, and the Federal BPLE in 9MM +P+ hit a sweet spot on effectiveness, if you can handle the recoil. It is snappy in just about any revolver or pistol suitable for concealed carry.

In this day in time the newer all copper bullets are a standout in both hunting, and pistol shootings.

I ordered the 230 gr in 45, and Speer and Federal HST in 147 gr for the  9 MM, plus some 124 gr +P I wanted to try. I have some Rem Golden Saber +P 127 gr bonded bullets on hand. I plan to shoot some water jugs soon, just because I like to play with my ammo to see how it performs in the jugs. I know it is not sientific but it is fun. Going to spend a Saturday with my soon to be 14 year grandson. He got a cronograph for Christmas. Guess what?

Also plan to shoot my Cor Bon DPX in both my Henry Carbine and my EDC 7 shot Reolver I carry. Want to see the difference in brl lengths, and what effect it has with the bullets fired through the different brls lengths. My carbine has a 22" brl while the Taurus snubbie has a 2" both firing 38 Spl and 357 Mag. Sometimes, longer brls have a not so good effect on pistol bullets. Shooting water jugs is fun.   
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 07:29:52 AM by pop pop »

Taurian

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2018, 07:12:52 AM »
I'll be sampling a few Hornady 9mm 147-grain XTP cartridges during the next range session. These have a muzzle velocity of 975fps.

The test platform will be a Rock Island 'Rock' 1911 FS Standard (5" barrel) (review at http://guntoters.com/blog/2015/12/26/rock-island-armory-armscor-1911-fs-standard-9mm-product-review/).  I'll be shooting 'benched' for accuracy and will also be doing some free-hand work.

If they work out in the 1911, I'll try them out in the Springfield XDm 4.5 (review at: http://guntoters.com/blog/2018/01/28/springfield-armory-xdm-9mm-4-5/).

And, of course, I'll post my impression of them in one form or another.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2018, 08:35:10 AM »
Hornady 147-grain XTP Range Results - The good and bad.

I mentioned in my last post that I would be trying out the Hornady 147-Grain XTP cartridge. The test platform was to be the Rock Island 1911 Standard FS in 9mm.  Well, I did try out the cartridge today and there was the good and bad.

The Good:

The cartridge is very pleasant to shoot. Felt recoil was softer than with the 124-grain fodder that I also ran through the pistol. The felt recoil was more of a push than a snap.

The cartridge was extremely accurate and resulted in a 1" group at combat distance (21-feet) fired off-hand.

The Bad:

Multiple FTFs in the Rock Island 1911 Standard FS in 9mm. However, I blame the pistol more than the ammunition.  The RI has a standard 1911 feed configuration, which means that the frame is the ramp with the mouth of the chamber being the second ramp. There is a little gap between the two ramps, as is common with 1911 pistols. The mouth of the chamber has been flared and polished. The mouth of the bullet was not hanging up at this point. It was; however, hanging up on the very top of the frame's feed ramp. FMJ cartridges fed with no issue.

I inspected the frame's feed ramp upon returning home and discovered a very slight burr at the top of the ramp.  This will be polished out as will the ramp area itself.  Further testing will reveal whether this was the fix.  I say this because the Ruger SR 1911 in 9mm has an integrated feed ramp (feed ramp is part of the barrel) and I have not had any issues firing HP ammunition, to include the Hornady ammunition,  through this pistol.

My synopsis is that, based on what I witnessed during this range session, as long as the feed ramp is integral to the barrel there should not be any FTF issues in any pistol that incorporates such, unless they are magazine related.

As a side note, I also had some hand-loaded, relatively hot 9mm loads with JHP bullets that also exhibited the same issue in the same pistol.  I am going to try some ammunition with a different bullet design through the pistol (Federal Vital-Shok and ), which has a non-serrated mouth, in the pistol to see if the design of the bullet may also be a contributing factor to the FTF issue.

By the time I get through with the RI 1911 Standard FS in 9mm work, this pistol will feed anything I throw in it.

The Springfield XDm 4.5 in 9mm will be tested at the next range session. I have no doubt that the Hornady 147-grain cartridge will run well in it.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 10:11:28 AM by Taurian »
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2018, 02:27:21 PM »
Remember that the barrel hood is also part of the feed-ramp system.
The bullet's nose often hits and slides along the barrel hood, as it goes into the chamber.
Sometimes HP bullets are caused to hesitate, as they impinge upon the barrel hood. This causes a mis-feed that can still look as if it was caused by the feed ramp.
Steve,
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Taurian

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2018, 08:24:20 AM »
Remember that the barrel hood is also part of the feed-ramp system.
The bullet's nose often hits and slides along the barrel hood, as it goes into the chamber.
Sometimes HP bullets are caused to hesitate, as they impinge upon the barrel hood. This causes a mis-feed that can still look as if it was caused by the feed ramp.
That is true. In this case (no pun intended) the lip of the case was actually hanging up at the top edge of the frame's feed ramp, which locked up the slide.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

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Re: 9mm - Gold Dot 124 grain JHP vs. Hornady 147-grain XTP
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2018, 07:30:44 AM »
Hmmm....coming in late on this....

147gr in the past is more uncomfortable for me to shoot that 124. So is 90gr +P.

Weight is not as important as bullet design in any case. IIRC, the key to the design is the Ballistic Coefficient of the bullet. So there's that.

I'm going to be eventually experimenting with unitary rounds such as this in different weights:

https://underwoodammo.com/product/handgun-ammo/9mm-luger-90-grain-xtreme-defender/

That will include the PolyCase Inceptor variants as well.

For the short term I am inclined to increase my stock of things in the 115-124gr range in 9mm, but I will be looking at things in the 90-120gr range of unitary rounds at some point this year.
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