Author Topic: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...  (Read 1673 times)

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Taurian

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This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« on: July 29, 2016, 11:57:07 PM »
...For Thinking He Lives In Free America

Thomas Abrahamsen, an 18-year veteran of the San Francisco Police Department, was arrested on felony charges for building and possessing the most popular rifle sold in the Free United States.


Source: http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/07/28/veteran-officer-faces-felony-charges-thinking-lives-free-america/?utm_source=badaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

flyover

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2016, 08:21:21 AM »
Well, it is Cali after all.

NorCalChuck

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2016, 11:14:34 AM »
What is really sad about this is the fact that there has been no publicity about this here in California.
This is the first I have heard of this.
The provided link in the story shows that his source was the San Francisco Examiner, July 26th.
It would stand to reason the TV, radio and other news sources would have picked this up.
I do consider this as rather curious . . . . .
"We will have a good government as long as those that govern are effected by those laws that they pass. When those that are passing the laws are no longer effected by those laws then they will no longer pass good laws."

jtg452

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2016, 08:15:33 AM »
Sorry, I don't see what the big deal is.

He's a veteran cop.  He knows the law.  He ignores the law, gets caught and gets charged with a felony.

Yes, the law is stupid, bad, etc...  No argument from me on that point.  But, it's still on the books and just disagreeing with a law doesn't make the law invalid.

As for the fellow cop turning him in, I'm cool with that, too.  I'd rather have it happening than the whole Blue Wall, Code of Silence thing that's helped hide graft, abuse and corruption all over the country.

crzyjarmans

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2016, 06:33:46 AM »
And people wonder why I call it COMMUNISTFORNIA!
Shawn, Stay armed, Stay safe

oldranger53

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2016, 08:45:21 AM »


Sorry, I don't see what the big deal is.

He's a veteran cop.  He knows the law.  He ignores the law, gets caught and gets charged with a felony.

Yes, the law is stupid, bad, etc...  No argument from me on that point.  But, it's still on the books and just disagreeing with a law doesn't make the law invalid.


<snip>



I've said it before and since you asked about the "...big deal..." It's THIS...the law itself is illegal and therefore invalid.
Any and all who "go along" and "just follow orders" to burn this guy, LEO or not, are all co-conspiritors in a group evil, and that evil is spreading like wildfire these days.
Someone has to stop "going along" and do what's RIGHTS even if they risk being burned by the cabal of those still hiding behind the pretense of what's "legal".

The fact that it's been hushed by the media is no surprise either!  The more people that know about the illegal nature of the current regime the more uprising there will be.

Look, see?  I got riled up just thinking about this...and I was already aware of their nefarious designs!

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

jtg452

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2016, 11:20:23 AM »


Sorry, I don't see what the big deal is.

He's a veteran cop.  He knows the law.  He ignores the law, gets caught and gets charged with a felony.

Yes, the law is stupid, bad, etc...  No argument from me on that point.  But, it's still on the books and just disagreeing with a law doesn't make the law invalid.


<snip>



I've said it before and since you asked about the "...big deal..." It's THIS...the law itself is illegal and therefore invalid.
Any and all who "go along" and "just follow orders" to burn this guy, LEO or not, are all co-conspiritors in a group evil, and that evil is spreading like wildfire these days.
Someone has to stop "going along" and do what's RIGHTS even if they risk being burned by the cabal of those still hiding behind the pretense of what's "legal".

The fact that it's been hushed by the media is no surprise either!  The more people that know about the illegal nature of the current regime the more uprising there will be.

Look, see?  I got riled up just thinking about this...and I was already aware of their nefarious designs!

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Sorry, we are just not going to agree on this one.

You don't get to pick and choose what laws to follow and what laws not to follow.  If you choose to do so, then don't complain when you get caught and have to face the music.

If a law is bad- like this one most certainly is- then you get it changed by working within the system not just arbitrarily ignoring it.

He's a cop.  He's taken an oath to uphold an enforce the law.  The law is on the books.  He chose not to follow the law.  A fellow LEO discovered he was breaking the law and did his duty by turning him in.  The LEO that turned him in took an oath to enforce the law and has an obligation to enforce it fairly without favoritism.

oldranger53

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2016, 11:23:03 AM »
They, and we (who are veterans) took an oath to support and defend the Constitution.

I took that oath on 31 October 1971.  When did you take it?

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>



EDITED
I am on the road right now so I can't respond properly.
Later today I'll offer a more detailed response.
Thanks for your patience.


EDITED AGAIN: sorry I'm too tired tonight to think, let alone write about something so sensitive and so important...to me at least.  I'll amend the time frame to "as soon as I can".  Thanks again for your patience.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 06:23:33 PM by oldranger53 »
Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

jtg452

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2016, 08:20:53 AM »
They, and we (who are veterans) took an oath to support and defend the Constitution.

I took that oath on 31 October 1971.  When did you take it?

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>



EDITED
I am on the road right now so I can't respond properly.
Later today I'll offer a more detailed response.
Thanks for your patience.


EDITED AGAIN: sorry I'm too tired tonight to think, let alone write about something so sensitive and so important...to me at least.  I'll amend the time frame to "as soon as I can".  Thanks again for your patience.

So, 'supporting and defending the Constitution' now means ignoring any law that you think is not right?

Bull.  You don't get to make that call. 

That's the US Supreme Court's job.  Or, while you are wrapping yourself up in the Flag, have you taken it upon yourself to do their job, too?

As for the oath, they wouldn't let me- but not from a lack of trying.  Medically ineligible due to injuries suffered in a childhood car accident.

oldranger53

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2016, 08:23:10 AM »
Ok.
I changed my mind.
I'm going to back out of this topic now.

Next time you drive 69 in a 65 mph zone, you think about what you just said.

Have fun with your righteousness. 

<Stand Tall.  Speak the Truth.  Never Surrender.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.

Taurian

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2016, 11:51:55 AM »
To the Four Branches of Government of the United States (sic):

So, 'supporting and defending the Constitution' now means ignoring any law that you think is not right?

So, 'supporting and defending the Constitution' now means creating any law that you know is unconstitutional?

Bull.  You don't get to make that call.

That's the US Supreme Court's job.  Or, while you are wrapping yourself up in the Flag, have you taken it upon yourself to do their job, too?

I suppose the same applies to State Supreme Courts since the U.S. Supreme Court is the final interpreter of federal constitutional law, although it may only act within the context of a case in which it has jurisdiction.  A "bullet-button" law is not a federal issue, it is a state issue.  The types of cases that must go to the supreme court are defined by the state constitution and statute.  It is highly unlikely that a case of this nature would go to the supreme court even if all appeals (if the officer is indeed found guilty) have been exhausted through the appellate court system.

LAW implies imposition by a sovereign authority and the obligation of obedience on the part of all subject to that authority. Note the key words; sovereign authority, obligation of obedience, and subject. However, it is up to those subjugated by laws to question the validity of laws. What is not considered, unfortunately, is the cost/benefit of doing so.

Welcome to the matrix of minds.
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

M1911A1

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 04:05:22 PM »
Quite long ago, Henry David Thoreau published an essay titled Resistance to Civil Government (which many high school students know as "Civil Disobedience").
In this essay, he advocated disobedience against laws that were seen as unjust. However, he also accepted the reality that such civil disobedience will almost invariably result in legal and social penalties.

Thoreau was a tax protester. Because he didn't pay his legally-mandated taxes, he was tried, found guilty, and sent to prison.
Thoreau accepted his penalty, and continued to refuse to pay his taxes. The irony of Thoreau's situation was that, instead of being left to rot in prison, he was released when a relative paid the tax for him, and also paid his fine.
(I have always felt that, by accepting release under those terms, Thoreau became a hypocrite.)

I am an advocate of civil disobedience, and will intentionally refuse to obey a law that I can prove to be unjust (or unconstitutional). However, I am more willing than Thoreau, to "take my lumps" for my stand.

Perhaps a more important issue in this case is that, since they enforce all of the law, just or unjust, the police must hold themselves to a higher moral and legal standard than must the general populace.
The cop in question was not only legally wrong, but morally wrong as well. It is not for a cop to practice civil disobedience. Instead, he must resign from the force first, and only then may he protest.
Steve,
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"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

crzyjarmans

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2016, 06:12:00 PM »
Is this total BS! With out question, is the State out of line for enforcing such a unconstitutional law? With out question, was the officer in question wrong, perhaps, but this is just one more reason, I won't set foot in the foreign nation known as Communistfornia
Shawn, Stay armed, Stay safe

M1911A1

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 09:00:09 PM »
"Commifornia" rolls off of the tongue better.

Which one "is total BS"? Me? Thoreau? The cop? Or Commifornia?
Steve,
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"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

Taurian

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2016, 07:26:54 AM »
Quote
Perhaps a more important issue in this case is that, since they enforce all of the law, just or unjust, the police must hold themselves to a higher moral and legal standard than must the general populace.
The cop in question was not only legally wrong, but morally wrong as well. It is not for a cop to practice civil disobedience. Instead, he must resign from the force first, and only then may he protest.
- M1911A1

To which, I agree.

The individual officer, in essence, is a representative for his department just as a member of the military is a representative of not only the branch of service in which he or she serves, but also of the government. Part of my personal oath is to not bring shame on myself, my people, or the uniform that I may wear. That carries though still today although I wear the uniform of a civilian.

When I pen on this forum, I am a representative of this forum - as inconsequential as that may be in the grand scheme of things.  The rules of this forum are such to prevent the forum from falling into a lack of ethics that I have witnessed on other forums, and I try my best to keep that from happening.

When I carry a firearm, I am a representative of all gun owners, and I try my best to keep that in mind when I am out among the English.

Did the officer break the law? No! He has only been accused of breaking the law.  And, until jurisprudence runs its course, we cannot really answer the question if a law has been broken.

At this point, I am going to let this old dog die in peace.
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.

crzyjarmans

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2016, 03:12:30 PM »
"Commifornia" rolls off of the tongue better.

Which one "is total BS"? Me? Thoreau? The cop? Or Commifornia?
LOL, Steve I have grown to have a lot of respect for you sense meeting you here at guntoters. And would never say to you "is total BS", to what I was referring to is the crazy laws in Commifornia, and to include, I believe you level of  wisdom is beyond mine, and I'm man enough to admit it
Shawn, Stay armed, Stay safe

M1911A1

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2016, 04:36:44 PM »
...I believe you level of  wisdom is beyond mine, and I'm man enough to admit it

Confidentially, I think that's only because I'm old enough to be your father. It's a respect issue.  ;) ;D

Truth: I enjoy reading your posts, and your point-of-view as well.
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

Taurian

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Re: This Veteran Officer Faces Felony Charges...
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2016, 05:29:46 AM »
Group Hug!

[attachimg=1]
What most 21st Century Americans simply do not grasp is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were not written to to give rights to the citizens of our then-new nation, but was instead written to tightly constrain the federal government.