Author Topic: What Comes Out, Must Go Down!  (Read 856 times)

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Taurian

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What Comes Out, Must Go Down!
« on: July 28, 2016, 11:34:25 AM »
I hope that you enjoy reading an article relating to projectile trajectory, otherwise referred to as projectile dysfunction to some.

There are plenty of pictures (for what remains of my relatives in Northern Michigan) to view.

Happiness is a Direction, Not a Place:  http://guntoters.com/blog/2016/07/28/happiness-is-a-direction-not-a-place/

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The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

oldranger53

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Re: What Comes Out, Must Go Down!
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2016, 05:56:30 PM »




<snip>

, otherwise referred to as projectile dysfunction to some.


<snip>




Funny!
I enjoy the humor here, a lot!

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M1911A1

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Re: What Comes Out, Must Go Down!
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2016, 06:57:25 PM »
Once again, good stuff, well presented and easy to digest.

Note (to other readers):
The diagrams showing trajectory tell us that whether you're shooting 9mm, .40, or .45, out to about 50 yards there just isn't much difference.
All three bullets will hit in just about the same place. "Close enough for folk music," as I used to say about my ability to tune banjo strings.

Another Note:
Those same diagrams tell me that maybe zeroing pistols for 50 yards would have been a better deal than setting the sights for only 25 yards.
But I maintain that a 25-yard zero is still the most appropriate for defense shooting anyway, because I never could hit anything reliably with a pistol, out at 50 yards.
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

NorCalChuck

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Re: What Comes Out, Must Go Down!
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 07:41:35 PM »
Out fifty yards even with a scope would be challenge today.
Now 30 or 40 years ago . . . . that would have been a piece of cake . . . . as the saying goes.
Chocolate with vanilla ice cream of course.
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Taurian

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Re: What Comes Out, Must Go Down!
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2016, 07:11:43 AM »
I do go along with the recommendation of a twenty-five yard zero - if you can achieve it. 

Most pistols, not deemed as "target" pistols, come with fixed sights, which means that you are reliant upon the sights that came with the firearm - until you decide to change them out for something better. Could we expect, for example, that the sights that come with a revolver or pistols are chosen based on the most common bullet fired from from a caliber of handgun.  For example, the 158-grain cartridge was the standard for the .38 special, the 230-grain for the .45 ACP, and 147-grain for the 9mm.  Today, I believe, those standards exist except in some cases where some manufacturers tailor their firearms around a different standard (say, 124-grain for the 9mm or 185-grain for the .45 ACP).

As we know, different weights of bullets will affect the point of impact when the sights are pointed at the same POA for each bullet.  At close distances, the difference can be negligible or great depending on the cartridge being fired. Ballistic differences are not really taken into consideration until the distance becomes a factor in trajectory as the energy of the bullet decreases.

I chose a fifty-yard zero for the article based on the military standard for the M1911, which was fifty yards. However, it was up to Colt to provide that zero with the accepted ammunition, the 230-grain .45 Automatic Colt Pistol, which rated muzzle velocity was 850 fps. The original cartridge for the M1911 was in 9mm, but due to military demands, the ,45 ACP cartridge was developed. The first .45 ACP cartridge held a 200-grain bullet.

If we standardize the cartridge, and as long as that cartridge is manufactured consistently, then we can provide a fixed sight height (rear and front) to provide a 50-yard zero, or in fact, any zero distance that we want - including a 100-yard zero. As we know, the original sight height on a M1911 was very close to the bore-line of the barrel; a necessity for combat use. But, we also know that the sights were adequate enough to hit a bulls-eye on a target 50-yards away in Camp Perry matches with experts marksmen operating the pistols using match ammunition.

Adjustable rear sights do provide an advantage. Rarely; however, is a fighting handgun equipped with out-of-the-box adjustable sights today because of the "preference" of combat handgun experts and the indoctrination of most of us to "snag-free" sights for defensive purposes.

The S&W 686 that I competed with was also my "Duty" revolver. My duty ammunition was 125-grain .357 magnum. The revolver was zeroed (for duty use) at 25-yards with my duty ammunition. I could do that because the S&W 686 has a rear adjustable sight.  I never changed the rear sight's sighting to accommodate my "competition" loads, which was lightly-loaded 148-grain wadcutter ammunition. When I started hand-loading, due to the quantity of rounds that were going downrange for both practice and competition, I experimented with powders and charges that would provide as close to the same zero as my duty ammunition. In hindsight, I should have just bought another S&W 686 just for competition, and I am not sure why I didn't. I think that it might of had something to do with the fact that we were supposed to compete with our duty weapon and I went along with that.  However, if the serial numbers of our duty weapons were not registered with the competition boards, how would they have known the difference if I used one S&W 686 for duty and another S&W 686 for competition?  I guess that for me, it would have been a  form of cheating, but I am sure that other competitors were doing it.

While I do not want to lengthen the article, I may attempt to show the difference in trajectory for a few different zeroes with the same cartridge, or I just may attempt a new article on it.

As a last note, when I was qualifying for the academy, we were issued fifty rounds of ammunition for qualification - 158-grain semi-wadcutter .38 Special (a P.O.S.T standard for qualifying at the time). Duty ammunition was 125-grain SJHP .357 magnum, and competition ammunition was 148-grain wadcutter.  When I had to qualify each year for the department, it was back to 158-grain semi-wadcutter (department issued) ammunition.  When I carried the Colt MKIV Government model, there was no department mandate and I could qualify with 230-grain ball ammunition.  It wasn't until I had to carry a "department" issued firearm that I fell under P.O.S.T requirements. With my off-duty firearm, I was allowed to qualify with ammunition of my choosing, but still stayed with a low-recoil, accurate round to get me through qualification.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.