Author Topic: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount  (Read 2671 times)

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Taurian

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I just published a review of the UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount

This seems to be an excellent dot site at an affordable price.

http://guntoters.com/blog/2016/07/09/utg-3-9-cqb-redgreen-single-dot-sight-wintegral-qd-mount/
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

M1911A1

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2016, 03:45:45 PM »
I don't remember seeing a note about the price of this sight, delivered.
I hope that it wasn't too expensive.

I note with a chuckle, and while begging your pardon, that you are adding fairly expensive-looking accessories to a very inexpensive, relatively short-lived, relatively low-power carbine.
I wonder, therefore, about the practicality of what you're doing.

I am led to speculate that it may have been better to have spent more money on buying a better-quality, longer-lived carbine, and just not gone the accessory-sight route at all. The savings from one would have helped pay for the other.
I suggest that a pistol-caliber, short-range carbine may work just as well in your hands, equipped with only a large-aperture peep sight and an ordinary, coarse-blade front sight, rather than with a more-expensive optical gizmo which requires batteries and in-use adjustments.

But that's just me...
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

Taurian

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2016, 04:48:03 AM »
The price of the dot site was $39.95, as could be found by following the linked reference found at the end of the article.

"I note with a chuckle, and while begging your pardon, that you are adding fairly expensive-looking accessories to a very inexpensive, relatively short-lived, relatively low-power carbine."

The Hi-Point carbine is inexpensive so I can agree with you on that.  Short-lived? Hi-Point has one of the lowest return for repair in the industry - and they sell a lot of pistols and carbines.  Low-power?  I invite anyone to stand in front of these things, let me shoot them with it, and then we can discuss the power factor.  I think that it would be a one-sided conversation.

Practicality?  I do have the Beretta CX4 Storm; a more expensive firearm than the Hi-Point. At some point, I may decided to opt for a better and more expensive PCC. For now, it is practical to have an inexpensive one to see if having one at all is worth the investment.  A KRISS would be nice to have, but unobtainable at this time.

I am working on an alternate sighting system, one that does not require me to remove the front sight every time that I need to disassemble the carbine.

The dot sight setup is faster to use than the open sights.  To understand that, you need to walk in my moccasins and peer through my sights.

Besides, how many people would actually say that they own one of these things? The Hi-Point carbine to the PCC carbine world is like the Rock Island Armory 1911 is to the 1911 world.

More later. It's range time.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

Taurian

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2016, 08:42:16 AM »
Update to range time.

The red dot optic, once sighted in, ran just fine thank you. Although I had some feeding issues with the Hi-Point 995TS WC carbine the first time out (straight out of the box), 100 rounds of 124-grain FMJ went downrange this morning without a whimper. 25-yard head shots while firing offhand - no problem.  Taking out the "X" at twenty-five yards while bench resting was also no problem.

All in all, it was a good COM (Crotchety Old Man) range session!
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

M1911A1

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2016, 12:43:31 PM »
...And I like your new avatar!



Nuttin' wrong with Hi-Point guns...except that they're made of zinc alloy, which, though self-lubricating to some extent, is subject to failure-through-wear due to the softness of the metal.

I'm glad that the sight was of a price commensurate with the gun upon which it's mounted. I hope that it lasts at least as long.
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

Taurian

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2016, 02:43:31 PM »
Thanks for the avatar compliment. I may keep it. He looks like a friendly sort.

The sight may outlast the carbine, and both may outlast me. Just sayin'

All these things (sight, carbine, and me) came with a limited lifetime guarantee and my lifetime seems to be getting more limited every day. 
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

M1911A1

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2016, 04:11:30 PM »
...About "low power":
While the 9mm Parabellum cartridge is pretty darn effective at pistol ranges, say zero-to-30 yards, a carbine has to justify its relatively larger size, greater bulk, and the increased awkwardness of swinging it, by delivering even more-effective hits than can a pistol.

To some extent, that's what was wrong with the US .30 M1 Carbine, although in all honesty it was designed to replace the pistol, and it did a pretty good job of that.
It improved the shooter's inherent personal accuracy by providing increased sight radius, longer barrel, more stable stock configuration, and, later, increased magazine capacity.
But the .30 Carbine cartridge (.32 Extra-Long Magnum, maybe) was really an inadequate battlefield round, out past about 50 yards. It was particularly inadequate against determined and hyped-up North Korean and Chinese soldiers, just as the .38 Colt round had been inadequate against Philippinos.

While I wouldn't ever want to voluntarily place myself in the line-of-fire of a 9mm anything, I also would not want to face-off against a determined foe if I were holding only a 9mm carbine and shooting at him from any reasonable distance. I would feel "under-gunned."
On the other hand, our current .223 carbine cartridge would be a very good choice, given a reasonably accurate and reliable carbine from which to shoot it. It would be comfortingly effective out to at least 150 yards, and maybe even out to 300, occasionally.

So, yes, I believe the 9mm Parabellum to be a "low power" cartridge, in carbine terms. I, personally, would even say "inadequate."
In my scheme of things, the carbine is a weapon which stands approximately halfway between a pistol and a real rifle. Its effectiveness should also be halfway between a pistol and a rifle.
But, to me at least, a 9mm carbine is no more effective than a 9mm pistol, albeit larger and more clumsy. To me, at least, that ain't a "carbine."

YMMV, as it is said.
Steve,
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"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

Taurian

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2016, 06:17:25 PM »
Well, PCCs have been around for a long time. They were popular in the Old West as a companion to a revolver; the Winchester lever-action in .44-40, 38-40, and .45 Colt.  I owned a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm and .45 ACP. I also owned a Ruger Model 44. And, lest we forget the "Thompson" SMG or the Colt 1873 Single-Action carbine that use pistol cartridges.

Then we have, as an example, the bolt-action Ruger M77/357 and M77/44. While Ruger calls them rifles, the 18.5-inch barrel lays them in the carbine class.

The FN PS90® Standard chambered in the 5.7x28mm cartridge, makes one heck of a companion to the FN Five-seven, which is chambered in the same cartridge.

I guess that those Israelis didn't know Jack when they developed the Uzi  with an anemic cartridge like the 9mm.

The advantage over a pistol is more velocity and better accuracy. The Kel-Tec Sub200 can use Glock magazines and the MechTec can mate with Glock frames. What a deal!  While a PCC may not share the same magazine with some pistols, it can share the same cartridge - and a wide variety of them at that.

I don't know how we got from optics to carbines, but so be it.  However, we could move this discussion to "The Rest of the Weapons" since we have managed to over-shadow optics by a large margin.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

M1911A1

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2016, 06:26:23 PM »
...I don't know how we got from optics to carbines, but so be it.  However, we could move this discussion to "The Rest of the Weapons" since we have managed to over-shadow optics by a large margin.

Naaahh...
I'll shut up now.
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

oldranger53

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2016, 09:16:35 PM »
I'm thinking, as a guess mind you, that a 9mm exiting a 16+" barrel would approximately be traveling at .357 magnum speeds.

That's only a guess...1400fps or so.

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 05:23:02 AM »
Check the "Ballistics by the Inch" website. They have a reasonable list of 9mm ammunition tested there.
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Taurian

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2016, 07:38:01 AM »
With a  somewhat calculated guess, I would say an increase of about 150 fps is about average. However, individual rounds may provide a higher figure. For example, and according to BBTI, the Speer 124-grain Gold Dot will provide a 176 fps gain from a 5-inch barrel as compared to a 16-inch barrel.  The Cor-Bon 125-grain +P provides a gain of 204 fps from a 5-inch barrel to a 16-inch barrel.  The results were based on the Beretta 92 (5" barrel) as compared to the Beretta CX4 Storm (16" barrel) carbine.

Is the modest gain in velocity, and subsequent ballistic characteristics, enough to warrant owning a PCC or PCR? Again, it is an individual choice.  Topping a PCC or PCR with an optic is certainty not going to hurt anything.

I started this thread based on a review of a specific optic. Whether or not that specific optic appeals to the reader is left to the reader.  All I can tell you is my impression of it, how it worked for me, and what firearm I installed it on for test and evaluation purposes.  I can tell you that I have tested several other low-cost dot sights and that they are not worthy of mounting, but at least I can use the batteries for other devices. 

Anyway, most reviews usually spawn controversies.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

M1911A1

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2016, 10:39:18 AM »
Discussion is the essence of the learning process.
Without some disagreement, there can be no meaningful discussion.

The only bad disagreements come from those who are adamant that theirs is the only way (that is, Progressives) or from people who insult you and your ideas.
Steve,
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"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

Taurian

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2016, 11:53:57 AM »
Discussion is the essence of the learning process.
Without some disagreement, there can be no meaningful discussion.

The only bad disagreements come from those who are adamant that theirs is the only way (that is, Progressives) or from people who insult you and your ideas.

Well, I can say that I have never felt insulted by anyone on this site and I hope that I have never, and will never, insult anyone knowingly. I respect everyone's opinion on this site because not to do that is to disrespect the person.

I had to re-watch the review of the Colt 1903 pistol by SOOTCH00. All that I can say it that it was not one of his better reviews.  I think that he is still trying to establish a methodology in his reviews (even though he has been doing them for some time) and hasn't quite made the grade as yet. He definitely is not as laid back as Hickok45 and some of Hickok45's firearm reviews have been a deciding factor in my depleting my retirement account.  Hopefully, I'll get to meet him at the NRA meeting in Atlanta next year.

Dissenting opinions do make for good conversations, unless like you say, the opinion is not in line with the agenda with the person voicing the dissenting opinion - as is the case with most progressives - and they would say the same about the dissenting opinion that they are in disagreement. 

I was watching some of the activity in Atlanta last night.  Most of the protestors were not capable of uttering a line beside the one that had been ingrained in their brain. No imagination at all!  I can see why "The Walking Dead" was filmed in Atlanta because there are plenty of dead walking around here.  My wifey tells me that there is no intelligent life in Atlanta and I am honestly starting to believe her.  I said the we are here and we are intelligent.  She asked, "What do you mean by we?" I can't win! I just can't win!  ;)
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

M1911A1

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2016, 12:04:00 PM »
...I said the we are here and we are intelligent.  She asked, "What do you mean by we?" I can't win! I just can't win!  ;)

Jean's ex-father-in-law, with whom we continued a friendly relationship (until he died, a few years ago), told me that he had found the secret to a successful married life, and that it was expressed in only two words.
"What are those words?" I asked eagerly.
"Yes, dear," he replied.

And you know, he was right!
Steve,
retired leathersmith and practical shooter


"Qui desiderat pacem, pręparet bellum."

Taurian

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2016, 12:21:25 PM »
...I said the we are here and we are intelligent.  She asked, "What do you mean by we?" I can't win! I just can't win!  ;)

Jean's ex-father-in-law, with whom we continued a friendly relationship (until he died, a few years ago), told me that he had found the secret to a successful married life, and that it was expressed in only two words.
"What are those words?" I asked eagerly.
"Yes, dear," he replied.

And you know, he was right!
I surely would have to agree with that.

It is a wonder that I have not become mute after biting my tongue so many times.
The fact that the GOVERNMENT would even consider removing the natural right to bear arms is the very reason why the 2nd Amendment was written.

oldranger53

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Re: UTG 3.9″ CQB Red/Green Single Dot Sight w/Integral QD Mount
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2016, 01:09:25 PM »
Now I've decided to buy one of these sights...just because.

<Sent from phone. Typos possible.>

Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight, and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be.  One hundred percent and then some.